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Angelo Cosma

Finally, FSX out, P3D in and Graphics card updated. Some Stutters...

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Hey guys, so I have finally switched the sim to P3D V3.2 and updated my EVGA 670GTX 2GB to an EVGA 980Ti Hybrid Gaming Watercooled unit 6GB.

The switch from FSX to P3D alone was pretty awesome, now this card makes it even better.

My question is though, I am attaining atleast 30FPS all the time but still get a microstutter, skip, or short pause, sometimes in rapid succession.

The Sim is on an SSD, the CPU is a Core i7 at 4.7Ghz, I am running 3 projectors via Nthusim blending, total resolution 3840X1024.

I have tried, Vsync On, Triple buffering, Vsync Off, FPS unlimited, FPS 30-35, Different setups in NVI or NVCP, and P3D.cfg and shader rebuild, can anyone point me in the right direction as to reduce the amount of stuttering?

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It sounds like the "magic bullet" on the micro-stutter issue is to run your display at 30Hz. and set/lock the FPS at 30.  At least that is what I have read on some of the posts here.  Not sure if that can be accomplished with projection systems.  The question I have is does it have to be certain HDMI cable as well to achieve this or is it simply a matter of the display capabilities to achieve30Hz.?

 

Clutch

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Projectors can be high refresh rates. Have you tried the limiter in NI set to a fraction of the projector refresh with unlimited, vsync and triple buffer on in P3D Display Settings?

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I use the internal FPS limiter at a frame rate that in most cases is achievable. This way my rig isn't bouncing between high and low frame rates when I get in high autogen areas (looking at you London). The vsync and triple buffer stuff only made the microstutters worse. Also, a proper AF helped.

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Projectors can be high refresh rates. Have you tried the limiter in NI set to a fraction of the projector refresh with unlimited, vsync and triple buffer on in P3D Display Settings?

 

Okay I will try that, the projectors are 60Hz so 1/2 refresh would get 30. I may even be able to set the NVCP to 30Hz I will have to look. 

 

As Daniel suggested, should I try an AM entry in the cfg?

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The NI limiter can cause problems check undocked panels work ok with no big fps drop. Always consider an AM if you have many cores and hyperthreading enabled.

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The NI limiter can cause problems check undocked panels work ok with no big fps drop. Always consider an AM if you have many cores and hyperthreading enabled.

 

I don't follow you on the undock panels portion? The Entire 3840X1024 area is strictly outside visuals. No cockpit being rendered at all, no vc, guages etc. Just outside view. Can you clarify?

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Some have reported problems of big fps drops when undocking the gps or other panels. It's possible you could have addon hardware that utilises those for their own displays.

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The instrument displays are being generated by a totally seperate computer. The P3D machine is entirely its own unit and runs just the sim for outside view. So, other than Active Sky Next and UT2 there's not much else running on it. 

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then should be no issues with the NI limiter set to 30, and in P3D VSync On TB On, set Unlimited on the slider.

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So, other than Active Sky Next and UT2 there's not much else running on it.

 

That's more than enough to generate stutters.  Check your ASN build, you want B5926 or higher and be sure to disable multi-layer visibility.  As for UT2, it's technically not a P3D supported product, but with that said it does work, suggest lowering your AI traffic settings ... I can't remember how UT2 AI setting were relative to MT6 setting, I think in UT2 I could go a little higher like 25-30% vs. MT6 10-15% ... but don't let the % values fool you, there is plenty of traffic in MT6 at 10-15% (50-70% and I can't take off for at least 30-50 minutes).

 

Anyway, as a test you might want to see if the stutters go away without using ASN and UT2, if they do, then work your way up until they return.

 

Another option, 361.43 drivers seem to work a little better in P3D V3.2, however I've just installed the 368.22 drivers and they "seem" ok, but haven't ran a apples to apples test yet.

 

Cheers, Rob.

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I have never used NI limiter. Is it only for fullscreen rendition?

 

Thanks Michael Moe

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I too have not resolved micro stutters. Keen to try the monitor refresh rate at 30hz. Assuming my monitor can accept this, do I limit frames to 30 in NI or P3D or both?

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I have never used NI limiter. Is it only for fullscreen rendition?

 

Thanks Michael Moe

Vsync + NI Limit work differently depending on the app. With P3D it works in a window or fullscreen. (VSync here should not be confused with the monitor vsync we remember from the old crt days).

 

I too have not resolved micro stutters. Keen to try the monitor refresh rate at 30hz. Assuming my monitor can accept this, do I limit frames to 30 in NI or P3D or both?

The "Limiter" in P3D display settings is not actually a limiter, it is a target frame rate for the mode of pre-rendered or look-ahead frames, and requires more powerful machine. It should not be confused with the limiter in NI.

 

Set fps on the slider and turn off VSync and Triple Buffer,

 

or

 

turn on Vsync+TB, set unlimited and set the NI limit or the monitor refresh.

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then should be no issues with the NI limiter set to 30, and in P3D VSync On TB On, set Unlimited on the slider.

 

So it's Unlimited again, how about FPS variation with the above settings? Or is it for the outside view only?

 

And I've noticed Rob also suggests Unlimted for P3D here:

http://www.robainscough.com/Prepar3D_Settings_2.html

 

 

Thanks,

Dirk.

(TitanX 6700K@4.6 here)

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So it's Unlimited again, how about FPS variation with the above settings?

(TitanX 6700K@4.6 here)

 

Thanks,

Dirk.

With P3D only, (not FSX) Vsync ON is limiting to the refresh rate of the monitor or the NI limit whichever is lower.

 

Only the frame rate slider can create frames with an equal time period, but it's heavy on the system because it arranges a series of look ahead frames. These also add up to an input delay. Generally there are up to three frames, each one physics based on an exact time period.

 

Otherwise with the monitor refresh or NI Limit and Unlimited on the slider + VSync ON, we get equal frames if they are all arriving limited.

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I use unlimited only because I can set my monitor refresh to 30Hz (the key being monitor refresh) ... hence my goal of 30 FPS.  Here is my rule of thumb on FPS/Refresh/Frame Limiter

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wzQ3a6BICcFwD_zm-NcFu4E63msHH0qY3I77UJ9Ed6w/edit#gid=0

 

Cheers, Rob.

 

I should take a note here, because my NEC supports 20, 24, 30Hz and so on

 

Thanks!

 

With P3D only, (not FSX) Vsync ON is limiting to the refresh rate of the monitor or the NI limit whichever is lower.

 

Only the frame rate slider can create frames with an equal time period, but it's heavy on the system because it arranges a series of look ahead frames. These also add up to an input delay. Generally there are up to three frames, each one physics based on an exact time period.

 

Otherwise with the monitor refresh or NI Limit and Unlimited on the slider + VSync ON, we get equal frames if they are all arriving limited.

 

 

It will sink down with time for me. Meanwhile I'll just do as suggested with  NEC @30Hz

 

Much thanks. 

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Has anyone found out why using NI frame limiter and undocking a panel causes the frames to half ?

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I should take a note here, because my NEC supports 20, 24, 30Hz and so on

 

Just keep in mind the best visual quality would be (in order):

 

option ID 8

option ID 2

option ID 4

 

If you use a lot of add-ons and like to turn up the graphics settings then option ID 4 is a good goal.  Of course option ID 8 is the best but not many folk can operate above 120 FPS.  Option ID 2 is a common desire, but one will need some very good hardware and be selective about add-ons and graphics settings.

 

Cheers, Rob.

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Just keep in mind the best visual quality would be (in order):

 

option ID 8

option ID 2

option ID 4

 

If you use a lot of add-ons and like to turn up the graphics settings then option ID 4 is a good goal.  Of course option ID 8 is the best but not many folk can operate above 120 FPS.  Option ID 2 is a common desire, but one will need some very good hardware and be selective about add-ons and graphics settings.

 

Cheers, Rob.

 

Rob, what exactly is Min FPS in your table? Is it Min actual FPS achievable?

 

Also I noticed SteveW kindly suggested to set 30 fps either in NI OR in Monitor. I can do both but I understand it's not needed in NI if I can do it on my monitor? Do I get it right?

 

Thanks,

 

PS: To some reason I like reading your option ID 3 for my heavy ORBX sceneries, could you comment on ID3?

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Rob, what exactly is Min FPS in your table? Is it Min actual FPS achievable?

 

Yes, fly around your area of choice, note your lowest FPS.

 

ID3 is similar to ID4 but because lowest FPS is so close to 30 there may not be enough headroom to use Triple Buffer.  Triple buffer helps smooth things out even more, but only if you have the additional performance to allow for it.

 

Option ID4 is what I use most of the time.

 

Cheers, Rob.

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The VSync times onto the backbuffer flipping from the forebuffer. With only two buffers and the out-frame is still being read, the renderer has to wait before flipping the buffer. But with the third buffer (triple buffer) the renderer can continue rendering. This means that there is less time for background functions, similar to when we choose the look-ahead fixed frame rate.

 

Even so, none of these methods are satisfactory when the going gets tough and the limit is not met by the renderer. For example when the frame rate drops the look ahead frames are used and there's no headroom to recreate them.

 

So in other words, if the limit is met by the renderer, the triple buffer is an advantage. and if the limit can be doubled by the renderer, the fixed frame rate becomes an advantage. Unfortunately the fixed frame rate pre-rendered frames are depleted to ensure fps stability, not to save us when the going gets tough. There needs to be very good performance to use the fixed fps setting.

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OK, finally I do feel I'm ready to go with P3D. I have very smooth results @30Hz/unlimited FPS over SCA at rather high settings and LOD at 5.5, happy.

 

Thank you so much.

 

PS: 6700K @4,7GHZ TitanX, 3000MHz RAM, no HT (gets too hot), I'll decide on AM=14 after I install EZDOK and TIR, so far AM=0 or 14 are the same, just different cores get hotter.

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SteveW kindly suggested to set 30 fps either in NI OR in Monitor...not needed in NI if I can do it on my monitor

Yes, setting only the monitor frequency is best if it does it.

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