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Why PMDG not freeware?

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Just curious if anyone knows of any reason given by PMDG why they would not release their FS2004 products as freeware?

Yes, I would like to get a couple of freebies, I don't deny this but as far as I can see it would make sense for them to do so.
Here is a chance to literally put out some fully functional 'demo' aircraft for people to try which could get them hooked on the PMDG brand. With strong competition coming from iFly in future sales I don't see why they would not look to use all avenues to control as much of the FSX/P3D market as possible. Their FS2004 aircraft are simply in the hangar doing nothing when they could be making PMDG future sales and pleasing a wealth of FS2004 users.
Ok, people did pay for them and some might not like to see what they paid for go for free but after this amount of time, I personally don't think the argument carries any weight.

Anyhow, just my thoughts. Doesn't make sense to me to simply make such great aircraft unavailable. If I was PMDG, I know what I would be doing!  

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If I was PMDG, I know what I would be doing!

 

Would  hope  they would release  their 747 :wink:

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Would hope they would release their 747

 

Yes! MD-11 for me too! This is the point, sooner or later I'll have to run to iFly if I want a decent 747 for FS2004. Once I buy the iFly 747, then brand loyalty will be with iFly and when I move to FSX/P3D guess who's products I'll buy! If the PMDG 747 was freeware, would I consider it worthwhile spending all that money on the iFly 747 for FS2004??? Who would I be loyal too in the future???

 

 

So the only thing that would make sense (in case the products would be made available again) would be to release them as freeware but without providing any form of support.

 

Exactly!

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Just curious if anyone knows of any reason given by PMDG why they would not release their FS2004 products as freeware?

 

Yes, I would like to get a couple of freebies, I don't deny this but as far as I can see it would make sense for them to do so.

Here is a chance to literally put out some fully functional 'demo' aircraft for people to try which could get them hooked on the PMDG brand. With strong competition coming from iFly in future sales I don't see why they would not look to use all avenues to control as much of the FSX/P3D market as possible. Their FS2004 aircraft are simply in the hangar doing nothing when they could be making PMDG future sales and pleasing a wealth of FS2004 users.

Ok, people did pay for them and some might not like to see what they paid for go for free but after this amount of time, I personally don't think the argument carries any weight.

 

Anyhow, just my thoughts. Doesn't make sense to me to simply make such great aircraft unavailable. If I was PMDG, I know what I would be doing!  

 

 

 

How does releasing decade old products translate to getting prospective buyers "hooked" on the PMDG brand? If anything, it may push them away as those products no longer represent PMDG's current capabilities, in terms of functionality and visual quality. Moreover, those products were compiled to take advantage of dated frameworks, libraries and drivers. It's probable they won't function correctly with current operating systems; thus, further pushing away future customers...

 

Also, you're talking about releasing products for less than 10% of the market, which hardly seems worth the effort. I believe you're looking at this from a micro vice macro perspective.

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Im guessing anyone using FS9 is not concerned about those factors regardless.

 

How does releasing decade old products translate to getting prospective buyers "hooked" on the PMDG brand? If anything, it may push them away as those products no longer represent PMDG's current capabilities, in terms of functionality and visual quality.

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How does releasing decade old products translate to getting prospective buyers "hooked" on the PMDG brand? If anything, it may push them away as those products no longer represent PMDG's current capabilities, in terms of functionality and visual quality.

 

PMDG's current capabilities and enhancements over the FS2004 line can be understood via current screenshots and product write ups. I'm sure people are intelligent enough to understand the FS2004 offering would not be the same as the current product offerings. The old products however allow people to appreciate how good these products were for their time, how much was incorporated into one of their aircraft from so long ago.

As for issues regarding OS etc. As far as I can tell they still work very well or we'd all be reading many more posts with problems.

 

 

Also, you're talking about releasing products for less than 10% of the market

 

No. 10% of the market would become the regular users of the product. How many FSX/P3D users have FS2004? I think quite a few would load the old girl up to have a very good play with the PMDG releases. Once satisfied, they'd be itching to try a modern up to date PMDG version on their current flight sim of choice.

 

Edit: I should also say, the trick with marketing is just to get into people's heads. The sales work often gets done on it's own with whatever logic works best in that particular persons mind if people can understand what I am trying to say? To just release a bunch of freeware in itself I believe would be enough to have a few people scrambling for current PMDG products without even trying the free releases. The free releases would be out there, they would be talked about, "the seed is in everyone's head."

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PMDG's current capabilities and enhancements over the FS2004 line can be understood via current screenshots and product write ups. I'm sure people are intelligent enough to understand the FS2004 offering would not be the same as the current product offerings. The old products however allow people to appreciate how good these products were for their time, how much was incorporated into one of their aircraft from so long ago.

As for issues regarding OS etc. As far as I can tell they still work very well or we'd all be reading many more posts with problems.

 

 

 

No. 10% of the market would become the regular users of the product. How many FSX/P3D users have FS2004? I think quite a few would load the old girl up to have a very good play with the PMDG releases. Once satisfied, they'd be itching to try a modern up to date PMDG version on their current flight sim of choice.

 

Edit: I should also say, the trick with marketing is just to get into people's heads. The sales work often gets done on it's own with whatever logic works best in that particular persons mind if people can understand what I am trying to say? To just release a bunch of freeware in itself I believe would be enough to have a few people scrambling for current PMDG products without even trying the free releases. The free releases would be out there, they would be talked about, "the seed is in everyone's head."

 

 

Again, you're pushing your proposal from a micro perspective. You're recommending PMDG try to entice <10% of the market. No business, regardless of sector, is going to release decade old products to entice such a minute market. The return on investment simply isn't worth the effort to compile the write-ups, screenshots and installers. Even you suggest "a few people scrambling." Is a multi-million dollar company concerned with a few people? After all, FS9 users are still using a 13 year old platform. How many of the 10% do you actually think will spend the money to update their computers, operating systems and hardware to run P3D? If you're lucky, you may entice .5% of the 10%? Even if you enticed 5% of that market, which isn't bad, you still lose money.

 

Also, concerning P3D, this market represents the early adopters; to that point, most of these users have the latest PMDG aircraft already. I doubt they have much desire to return to aircraft complied 10-15 years ago. It's obvious you don't use P3D; if you did, you would realize that <1% of those users are going to revert back to FS9 just to fly 12 year-old Aircraft. As a P3D user, I had to chuckle when I read that assertion. FS2004 was an absolutes gem for the day, and still looks good today, but there's no way P3D users are going back to it..

 

" As for issues regarding OS etc. As far as I can tell they still work very well or we'd all be reading many more posts with problems."

 

You literally only have to go back 1 page to find a 3-page thread regarding problems with FS9/Win-10. I guess there's a lot of known issues with Win10? There's also plenty of threads associated with NVIDA driver...

 

Why doesn't PMDG simply offer limited trials of their current products? The answer is they don't have to. They've spent a decade building a solid reputation, which speaks for itself. To that point, they've already "turned heads" within the market. People already understand the quality associated with their products; releasing decade old products isn't going to enhance their already stellar reputation; if anything, it will detract from it...

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Once I buy the iFly 747, then brand loyalty will be with iFly and when I move to FSX/P3D guess who's products I'll buy! 

 

 

 

I have to disagree here, the systems fidelity, level of detail, attention to the little nuances of the aircraft, and sounds that PMDG are able to replicate come nowhere close to iFly.

 

iFly is nice and I would recomend them to a noivice simmer just starting out fresh, but to any of my serious simmers, pilots, ATC I know it is PMDG all the way. 

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You literally only have to go back 1 page to find a 3-page thread regarding problems with Win-10. I guess there's a lot of known issues with Win10? There's also plenty of threads associated with NVIDA driver issues....

 

I won't post about anything else you stated because we will be here all day! lol
Think we both made our points now.

I did want to quote the above. EVERYTHING is having problems with Win 10! The older PMDG products are working just as well today on other operating systems. May be working on Win 10 too I don't know? You are outlining an OS that is a problem factor with many things, you are not outlining the FS2004 PMDG product as a problem. Considerable difference in argument.

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I won't post about anything else you stated because we will be here all day! lol

Think we both made our points now.

 

I did want to quote the above. EVERYTHING is having problems with Win 10! The older PMDG products are working just as well today on other operating systems. May be working on Win 10 too I don't know? You are outlining an OS that is a problem factor with many things, you are not outlining the FS2004 PMDG product as a problem. Considerable difference in argument.

 

 

They are one in the same. Complex add-on aircraft relay on libraries/framework provided by the OS libraries to function correctly. A good example is the LVD 767, which works fine in FS9, but won’t work with Win10. If you’re using win10/7 with FS2004, you may experience problems with PMDG aircraft.

Agreed, we both made are arguments. Enjoyed the discussion…

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This is actually a very good idea, one that would show commitment to the flight sim community.  A number of other payware developers have done this.

 

Best wishes.

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Just as a matter of interest not all that long ago I searched for and found a link where I was able to buy the FS9 version of the Beech 1900 from PMDG - it's not listed on their main site.  And before anyone asks for the link I'm afraid that I didn't save it but I certainly did buy a legitimate copy from them.

 

However, although I have bought this aircraft it has done nothing to make me want to move to FSX or P3D to get their more improved products - and it wouldn't have made me any more determined if I have somehow got the 1900 free either.

 

Dijvid

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This is actually a very good idea, one that would show commitment to the flight sim community.  A number of other payware developers have done this.

 

Best wishes.

 

 

Hey Dave! I can only think of one payware aircraft that was released as freeware...the SMS MD-11. That's all that come to mind....what commercial airliners am I missing?

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This is actually a very good idea, one that would show commitment to the flight sim community.  A number of other payware developers have done this.

+1. I think that the gesture of goodwill and associated good PR would be the primary reason for them doing this,and other benefits like introducing people to the PMDG brand would be secondary. Mostly, I'm thinking why not? Instead of permanently zapping the FS2004 planes from existence, they could make them available to everybody while making it explicitly clear that no support of any kind would be offered. It might not be completely fair to customers who bought the planes, but ultimately it doesn't affect them. If I bought, say, the old 737NG in 2004 there's no way I could have foreseen it becoming freeware in the future, and similarly I doubt that there are many people who would wait a decade for the 777 or NGX to become freeware. 

 

   

 

Hey Dave! I can only think of one payware aircraft that was released as freeware...the SMS MD-11. That's all that come to mind....what commercial airliners am I missing?

There's the RFP 747-200, and on the XPlane side of things there's the Dreamfoil Aeroboero and the old Embraer 170 by SSG. 

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There's the RFP 747-200, and on the XPlane side of things there's the Dreamfoil Aeroboero and the old Embraer 170 by SSG.&nbsp;

Forgot about the Ready For Pushback; however, that company closed its doors. You're right, companies who cease operations routinely offer their products for free; however, that's a lot different from active companies seeking to maximize their profits. I can't think of singe active FS aircraft developer who engages in this practice. That includes PMDG, Capt Sim, Feelthere, Wilco, BBS/PSS, Aerosoft, Just Flight, QW, Aerofly, Overland, Carnardo, Quest, etc....

 

Instead, they would rather terminate older products lines and release updated renditions as a new product. As for profit entities, I can't blame them for that....

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 I can't think of singe active FS aircraft developer who engages in this practice. 

I just stated two, Dreamfoil and SSG. Granted, these are XPlane developers, but it's still the same business. Also, there's SMS with their MD-11- who are still in business and I believe were still developing products when they released the MD-11 for free. Finally, imaginesim, who still actively develop airports, released old versions of KDTW, KEWR, and KMSY for free. Granted, it isn't common for developers to do this, but not unheard of either. In fact, it's probably almost as rare as developers completely discontinuing an old product, removing it from the market entirely. Many of the developers you listed still offer very old products for sale- I can only think of a handful that are no longer available anywhere. 

 

All this being said, I'm sure that PMDG have their reasons. I'm betting that they're mainly afraid customers would settle for the older aircraft instead of buying the newer NGX and 747 v2, even though the new versions are radically better than the old ones and I can't really see the markets overlapping too much. Anyway, they'll probably never release anything for free, but it's a fun idea to think about. 

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I'm betting that they're mainly afraid customers would settle for the older aircraft instead of buying the newer NGX and 747 v2

 

I think the same!

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ISIS is one, they've released a number of pay ware aircraft as freeware.

 

There are other developers who have also done this, be it making products freeware at release or later down the road.

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Forgot about the Ready For Pushback; however, that company closed its doors. You're right, companies who cease operations routinely offer their products for free; however, that's a lot different from active companies seeking to maximize their profits. I can't think of singe active FS aircraft developer who engages in this practice. That includes PMDG, Capt Sim, Feelthere, Wilco, BBS/PSS, Aerosoft, Just Flight, QW, Aerofly, Overland, Carnardo, Quest, etc....

 

Instead, they would rather terminate older products lines and release updated renditions as a new product. As for profit entities, I can't blame them for that....

 

Milviz very recently turned their civilian / racer version of the P-38, the P-38 Red Bull, from payware into freeware. It's available, for free (no support), from their website.

 

That said, I more than agree that it's purely a developer's prerogative to do such - sometimes the inevitable support issues & complaints, even with a lack of support clearly indicated, will easily outweigh the benefits.

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Yes! MD-11 for me too! This is the point, sooner or later I'll have to run to iFly if I want a decent 747 for FS2004. Once I buy the iFly 747, then brand loyalty will be with iFly and when I move to FSX/P3D guess who's products I'll buy! If the PMDG 747 was freeware, would I consider it worthwhile spending all that money on the iFly 747 for FS2004??? Who would I be loyal too in the future???

 

 

 

 

Exactly!

My brand loyalty is with whoever produces the best product at that time. IFly birds are not as good as anything PMDG has made. IMO. But I do think it would be excellent idea for them to release old products they don't sell anymore. Just upload them to avsim and make it clear that no support is available.

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There is no reason in this, or any other, world for PMDG or any other company to do any such thing. FS itself is a discontinued product and MS certainly has not, and probably will not, release any flightsim game or add-on for free regardless of age. The number of payware items released for free, by anyone, is minuscule.

 

DJ

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MS should make FS9 freeware and open source so the community would really have something to play with.

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Yet another current developer providing a new product as freeware... though it's for X-PLane, Icarus Simulations has a new Avanti P180 (with FMS) coming out as Freeware. I have only seen screen shots and last night I spoke with the developer for about an hour about this and his other projects.

Anyway, I suppose the point is that it really does happen.

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