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Guest Jaguar XJ6

Getting tired of paying to beta test...

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Guest

I should learn my lesson and wait to buy, but I got a great deal for a preorder...Anyway, if life is a beta test, where is the reset button?I use to work as a tester for a software company but I actually got paid to do it. This is getting ridiculous though

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Guest bobsk8

Well, as Clayton said above, if you wait a couple of months after a product is released , you will avoid much of the beta testing. You will also find out if the bugs are going to be fixed in a timely fashion. If they aren't, then you will be very glad you waited. People that rush right out and buy something the day it hits the market, really have nobody to blame but themselves, in my opinion.

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Well actually for the PSS 777 i did order but im yet to download the product i didnt download the RC1 nor have downloaded the Gold version, i will wait for a month or so and download it,i only preorder it cause it was going at a great price!

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I never buy any addon on release day anymore. All you need to do is read the forums here and the company support forums to get a good feel for how the product is at release. A little research and a little patience goes a long way.

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>I never buy any addon on release day anymore. All you need>to do is read the forums here and the company support forums>to get a good feel for how the product is at release. >>A little research and a little patience goes a long way. There are "some" addons, that you can count on being quite complete on day one. Dreamfleet & RealAir Simulations are good examples.And I'm sure there are others, but after many years of simming, and many addons, I'm quite familiar with these.L.Adamson

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Actually I'm getting tired of the same people rushing out to buy the product the first day - then complaining it's not complete - over and over.I'm also tired of the same people over and over again not reading the documentation and complaining because the product does not meet the customers design goals vs the developer's design goals.The CS C-130 reverser "issue" is an example of a customer's unknowledgable / reasonable expectation - especially not knowing how FS can make some things possible, some impossible.I would hope everyone is mature enough to know that buying a piece of software on the first day is risky.When you buy the first version - especially downloadable software You deliberately choose to accept the risk of the product not being finished.Too many people willing take that risk and yet complain about the choice the made.Yes I make some of those choices - but I make them knowing the product may not be "gold".The nature of FS and it's worldwide usage, but the impossibility of a physical distribution system - guarantee that developers will be pushed to release their products.I'm also disappointed in many of the beta testing processes - there are companies I trust to do a good job, some I don't.A beta tester should spend about 5-8 hours of work on understanding an aircraft before every loading the aircraft in FS. That's my opinion.I deal a lot with AI - 90% of that beta testing/ review occurs BEFORE the package ever gets into FS.There were over one thousand posts on this forum demanding CS release the C-130 immediatelyThey did - now the same people are unhappy.In my opinion - the customers are demanding public beta releases - and the companies are responding.

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"Well actually for the PSS 777 i did order but im yet to download the product i didnt download the RC1 nor have downloaded the Gold version, i will wait for a month or so and download it,"You mean you've bought it but you're not going to touch it for a whole month??Go on - have a little peek. No-one will know. Personally, I'd just have to. :) Ian

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Guest wildfire563

Nope, too much trouble. I have enough other things to do.And, yes, I am perfect. :-)Ok, maybe I might take a peek. Then again,

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I waited two years to get the 767PIC :-lol. I was stung by a payware company a few years ago. Their product was flawed and buggy as ####. From that day onward I decided to wait at least a week, to see the user feedback.---------------------------------------"If it doesn't have a VC, I won't be flying it http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v615/DarrenA300/smug.gif" ... hang on a minute .... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v615/DarrenA300/unsure.gif ... that is too restrictive! Most flight simulator planes don't have a fully functional VC .... I'm happy to fly non-VC planes such as the brilliant iFDG range, Samdim's fantastic aircraft, POSKY's wonderful planes, and many many others! I'm the richer for it :).

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Unfortunately, "time-to-market" appears to have become THE major criterium for a lot of payware suppliers these days.Although I can understand that from a "commercial" point-of-view in this compatitive market, from a "hobby" point-of-view I agree with you; and think this is a bad trend. Being a SW developer (and (freeware) FS-addon developer) myself, it often amazes me what type of of problems are still left in initial releases of some new products. Rob

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Most payware I've bought recently has been very thoroughly tested, especially the A36 and B58 from Dreamfleet.I don't mind a few small bugs in the first version especially if it's a complex addon. Such bugs are bound to creep up only after the product is released because then the product is installed on thousands of user's systems instead of just on a couple of beta tester's systems which makes a big difference.However, sometimes bugs show up that really make you wonder if they tested the product at all before releasing it. That is never acceptable IMO. There have indeed been a few examples of this recently, and it may becoming more common. I won't mention any names here, but some flightsim developers really need to improve their QA if they want me to buy anything from them again.

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>From that day onward I decided to wait at>least a week, to see the user feedback.That's a good policy. Although with most addons, 24 hours is more than enough to tell what is buggy and what is not. Look at any aircraft addons now. How many didn't need some sort of patch? Sure, there are always a few like the Dreamfleet 727 which are released in great shape, but those are rare. You want perfection? Wait for the first patch. Can't wait? Then go buy it now. You know most companies will get it right eventually. It isn't like the prices drop significantly for those of us who wait to buy. We end up spending the same amount as the people who buy the first day.

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On the other hand developers have a very difficult job.- Customers complain because release is taking too long to get out the door.- Budgets don't allow for a an expensive beta testing department (unless we all want to pay even more for the addons)- Products will likely become obsolete as soon as MS decides to release a new version of FS- A minority of very vocal whiners in the forums that complain about things like a rivet being misplaced- Have to please a wide range of users, from those that want to click one button to get aircraft started, to those that want to spend 30 minutes doing pre-flight.- Selling to customers with highly customized hardware and software configurationsetc, etc, etc.In other words, it's not usually a problem with the developer (of course some are better than others), but a problem with the system itself.Matt

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Guest

being a tester of software myself in a few past jobs, I can say it isn't the fault of the testers 99% of the time. The product is rushed to market as fast as possible no matter what bugs are found in many cases

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*I* am tired of being a beta tester for Microsoft. I've been doing it since Windows 2.x.But I have to say that almost all of my payware airplane purchases have been reasonably fulfilling - e.g. I'm not wondering when the heck the first or second or... service pack will be out. Perhaps I'm just not picky enough, or aren't flying the same airplanes that others are - I fly GA stuff almost exclusively.Dave Blevins

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The payware market is now so diverse that company reputation is a huge factor, at least in my buying decision. Those developers who have an unblemished record will have my confidence straight from the initial download. Greg

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It also used to be said in the trade "never buy a totally new model of a car until a year after its release". Similar principles apply to most new products.

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Guest

Then go about it different and take up a job in the software sector as a professional tester.That way you're being paid to beta test :)Of course it won't be much fun as you'll be running the same tiny part of the same application you'll never use after it's released a hundred times or more to define the parameters within which it works correctly and then decide whether those parameters are what they should be and whether failure outside those parameters is in an acceptable way.

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I agree with you Reg to A certain point.I too took the plung into the CS 130. I know to expect some minor bugs and inconvenences with new downloads and software. I been at this for years. But for the asking price and the amont of time they claimed for beta testing, I was very disappointed with what I got. But like you said, It was my decision to fork out the cash. But I don't have to be happy about it.Bill M

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I agree that "Life is a Beta Test" If I purchase a piece of flight sim SW I KNOW I am taking a risk ... but hey ... it's MY RISK.PSS were bold and accomodating with the release of their "pre release version" ... i thought it was fun ... frustrating a bit, but fun.NOTHING, and I mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING is perfect ... especially in the computer biz ... having been in the computer biz for 30 of my 40 (UGHHH) working years I can say that with some authority ... hahahahahaha.For flight sim ... just think of the permutations and combinations of software and computer hardware ... not to mention addon things such as rudder pedals, yokes, etc ... when you really have a sense of what is there ... then I really believe you would be amazed that anything at all ever works!!!! I am amazed every day!!!Finally, someone, Will Rogers, PT Barnum ... not sure I remember who, said, "You can please some of the people some of the time but you cannot please all of the people all of the time." AND, then there is my old pal Buddy who always says "Everyone is a critic."I say, be thankful for what we have, be constructive in your criticisms and try to offer reasonable problem reports, and enjoy yourself. Imagine ... I have a 2004 Nissan Murano ... $31000 worth of car, which had a recent recall because the alternator could overheat, fail, and you would be left on the freeway at 80 MPH with no power ... hahahahaha ... so I put my software problems into that persoective ... and for $50 set my expectations.I know that LDS, Dreamfleet (F1)and usually PSS (and others I guess)can usually be expected to provide good stuff right out of the chute ... but everyone is HUMAN.Happy that it's Friday!!! How bout you?

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