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jakronym

Captain Sim L1011 vs Justflight Pro

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Which L1011 (Captain sim l1011 or just flight l1011 pro) has a more in-depth system simulation and can any of the two be considered a study sim?

 

 

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I have the CS L1011 and it's my favorite CS model. A study? Hmm... maybe. It's got a lot going for it but I don'the have the JF version so I'm not qualified to provide a comparison. Looking forward to hearing other opinions.

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I have the CS L-1011.  I wouldn't consider it a study sim, but it is a solid offering and definitely not 'sim lite.'  It has a few things missing but none of them are critical IMO.  Though it looks like it has dual INS systems, it is two instances of the same unit and it has some shortcuts if you don't want to spend your whole flight entering LAT/LONG coordinates.  You can add the freeware CIVA INS and get dual units if you want, but it has to be used via pop-up window and cannot be integrated into the virtual cockpit as far as I know.

 

There is an excellent, detailed tutorial written by Tom Beckett in the library if you want to dive in deeper than the Captain Sim documentation.  He also provides a few tweaks to the flight model to make it a little more agile.

 

I don't have the Just Flight version either, but from what I've read on the forum the CS version is generally regarded as the better of the two.  I don't know how well the flight model conforms to the real thing, but it does feel and handle like the big bird that it is.  It has an excellent virtual cockpit and the modeling of the DLC is very well done.

 

I do fly it regularly and enjoy it.  Unless you know you won't be happy with anything less than a study sim it is well worth having, IMO.

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I own both, and I would say neither is a study-level sim. JF is a bit more complex if you don't mind fewer eye candy.

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I have the CS L1011 and it's my favorite CS model. A study? Hmm... maybe. It's got a lot going for it but I don'the have the JF version so I'm not qualified to provide a comparison. Looking forward to hearing other opinions.

I too have the CS L-1011 (as well as most of their other airliners) and I agree it is arguably their best product. It does provide a reasonable degree of functional system replication, but if by 'study' you mean something with the systems replication standard of the Majestic Q400 or the PMDG airliners, then you will find it falls a bit short, although it is still a great airliner to fly. I too don't have the JF version so I can't comment on that, although JF certainly have been improving their system replication standards with their more recent products as I have been pleased to find with their recent One-Eleven.

 

Bill

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In case you're interested in the JF Tristar Pro, They're having a weekend ~60% off deal till Tuesday - Down to 15 GBP.

 

Use the code "WEEKEND" at checkout.

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In case you're interested in the JF Tristar Pro, They're having a weekend ~60% off deal till Tuesday - Down to 15 GBP.

 

Use the code "WEEKEND" at checkout.

Could I ask where is this sale? Checking the JF site, I can't find any mention of a sale and clicking their 'special offers' link, the only products in the sale seem to be non-JF products. Perhaps I have missed something!

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I own both, and I would say neither is a study-level sim. JF is a bit more complex if you don't mind fewer eye candy.

I actually disagree with this statement. I also have both, and both are good planes. However, many switches do not work in the JF version (I only owm the standard, not the pro version). Almost all buttons on the CS model do work, so you can simulate standard operations in great detail.

 

I found an operational manual for the 1011 online and created an amplified checklist for the CS model from it. I only had to omit very few items, even though the checklist includes all system tests - and there are many.

 

I did not have the impression that all these switches actually make a difference to the flight dynamics, so I agree that both models wouldn't enable you to study non-standard situations. However, you can simulate a normal flight in great detail, and the main systems work really well. For instance, I noticed that you cannot start the engines unless the fuel pump switches and packs are correctly set.

 

Peter

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Hi Chris,

 

yes, but the upgrade was always more expensive than the CS 1011 during Xmas sale, so I never was tempted to get it. I trust you that the pro version is competitive. However, I must admit that I have never read a negative review from Mutleyshangar :)

 

Peter

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Could I ask where is this sale? Checking the JF site, I can't find any mention of a sale and clicking their 'special offers' link, the only products in the sale seem to be non-JF products. Perhaps I have missed something!

 

It was an Email offer for previous JF customers and subscribers.

 

 

 

(I only owm the standard, not the pro version)

 

Well there you go. The thread starter is specifically talking about the pro version. Again the Pro version is only slightly more complex than CS out of the box.

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Could I ask where is this sale? Checking the JF site, I can't find any mention of a sale and clicking their 'special offers' link, the only products in the sale seem to be non-JF products. Perhaps I have missed something!

Add WEEKEND at the checkout and the discount will be deducted

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Succumbed to the temptation. 19€ was just too good an offer to be passed upon.

 

Would have liked to see the longer fuselage models included instead of the military variants though.

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Just tried a short lap around BGR in the L-1011 Pro. Didn't even get to the turn on final and received an OOM.

With bog standard default scenery.

And FSXSE.

In (fixed) DirectX10 mode.

 

My disappointment is as huge as the lack of commercial success for the real thing.

 

 

 

But with 400+ MB of textures to process per session and 700 drawcalls for the VC model (= lots of VAS use), I was a bit of a fool to expect a different outcome.

 

Too bad. This bird had a bit of promise.

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Thanks for the report Bjoern. I was JUST ABOUT to buy it. 60% off is tempting. But I haven't had good luck with JF so I'll take your experience as a nice warning.

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You're welcome.

 

I would have requested a refund, but this is sadly not possible for downloaded software.

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Hi Bjoern. We'll definitely investigate the issue but we've only received a couple of reports of performance-related issues in the few years that we've been selling it, so I can only assume that not everyone encounters OOMs (as the developer of the 'Pro' upgrade, I spent many many hours flying the aircraft and I didn't encounter a single OOM with a relatively modest PC). The 'Pro' upgrade added a ton of animations and visibility tags to the engineers panel so that would have increased draw-calls significantly, but obviously it shouldn't be to the point where the product is not usable. 

 

Regarding refunds, please contact our customer service team and they'll be happy to provide you with a refund.

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Hi Bjoern. We'll definitely investigate the issue but we've only received a couple of reports of performance-related issues in the few years that we've been selling it, so I can only assume that not everyone encounters OOMs (as the developer of the 'Pro' upgrade, I spent many many hours flying the aircraft and I didn't encounter a single OOM with a relatively modest PC). The 'Pro' upgrade added a ton of animations and visibility tags to the engineers panel so that would have increased draw-calls significantly, but obviously it shouldn't be to the point where the product is not usable. 

 

Regarding refunds, please contact our customer service team and they'll be happy to provide you with a refund.

 

Hi Martyn, thanks for replying.

 

The computer hardware isn't the key to the issue as framerates in the L-1011 were good. It's the amount of memory FSX can manage and this has a fixed upper limit regardless of computer hardware installed. So if you run FSX with default scenery, no AI traffic and medium to high slider settings, you're perfectly able to run the L-1011 Pro all day long, but as soon as there's other stuff that requires a chunk of managed memory, such as autogen, AI and a custom scenery or high resolution environment textures, the margin of available memory gets narrower and chances are that the memory limit will be encountered.

 

With complex models featuring a lot of animations, the problem is that FSX creates a new draw call for the animated part, with associated texture files. So with a 4 MB texture file for the diffuse, specular and bump texture each and a lot of animated switches in the cockpit, the amount of memory claimed by the cockpit model alone will be huge.

 

For me as a end user, the only workaround is deleteting any specular and bump maps from the texture folder, shrink the VC diffuse textures from 2048x2048 px to 1024x1024 px and then convert them to DXT1 format for maximal memory conservation. Not a pretty solution though and the model file will still look for the missing textures, meaning some excess CPU/GPU cycles.

 

So if you're still in touch with the model developer, providing a "lite" interior model version without any specular or bump maps in the materials and textures at half resolution could help lower the general memory use for users with problems.

 

 

And since we're already talking, here's some minor things I've found:

 

- There are some draw order issues in the VC with switches hidden below transparent covers. The switches will not be drawn when the plexiglass cover is in front of it.

- The main annunciator's "electrical system" light stays illuminated despite all systems being a-ok and running. In a short test, I could fix this by replacing the "||" in the associated XML gauge file with an "or".

- I don't think that the anti-skid system may only be engaged when the parking brakes are off. In other aircraft with such a system, the switch merely arms it, with the actual anti-skid system engaging and disengaging automatically as long as it's armed. Granted, this could be a quirk of the real L-1011, but I'd be very surprised if the crew had to toggle the button each and every time before or after they used the parking brake.

- The EPR bugs are very clumsy to operate since every single one has to be dialed from 0 up to the target value. Starting the range of valid values at 1 and implementing a "match the other two bugs to the current one" function (via middle mouse click) would help here.

- The installer refuses to install the L-1011 to an outside directory (unless it finds a fsx.exe in it).

 

 

And a general question:

- Does the L-1011 feature a save system for the custom variables used by the switches to facilitate loading a flight? I could not find any reference to this in the manual.

 

 

Regarding the refund, I'll wait and see how this conversation develops. :)

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Deleting the spec and bump maps from the texture folders frees up some 200-300 MB of VAS. Was not able to try the DXT1 conversion for the remaining textures just yet.

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Spent the last few days testing the 1011 Pro on my laptop trying to cut down on VAS usage. Converted all textures to DXT1 and replaced the bump and spec maps with very small placeholders to avoid FSX complaining. The available VAS still dropped from 2.2 GB initial to 1.7 GB after fifteen minutes of flying the pattern. Too little if used in a "real", add-on equipped FSX enviroment (the one on the laptop is default).

Then I tried DirectX 10 mode and regardless of texture format and size, available VAS stayed around 2 GB during my test flight and I could "complete" (crash land short of the runway due to a lack of suitable input controller) it. This begs the question why I did get an OOM error on my desktop PC in DX10 mode. Does video memory (or lack thereof) contribute to OOM issues?

 

(The pendulum swings towards keeping the TriStar at the moment.)

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Hi Bjoern,

 

Does the L-1011 feature a save system for the custom variables used by the switches to facilitate loading a flight? I could not find any reference to this in the manual.

 

Unfortunately I don't think that it does, unlike our newer aircraft.

 

I have begun looking into the issues that you've reported but unfortunately I will now be away for a week, so I'll be unable to continue until I get back. I'll provide you with an update on the progress on my return.

 

Thanks

Martyn

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Unfortunately I don't think that it does, unlike our newer aircraft.

 

I have begun looking into the issues that you've reported but unfortunately I will now be away for a week, so I'll be unable to continue until I get back. I'll provide you with an update on the progress on my return.

 

Hi Martyn,

 

the lack of load/save functionality isn't much of a problem as long as the major systems stuff is handled by XML gauges whose variables are pretty easy to access. It would just have been nice to have it out of the box since creating one myself is quite time consuming.

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