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klamal

A request to developers(especially FS2Crew and GSX)

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Is there any chance at all that we can stop adding features that can't work most of the time due to whatever reason?

 

For example, FS2Crew...It is frustrating to push back in completely clear skies - No visible moisture/precip for miles and miles and miles - only to have the FO do his flap movement check!!  This is regardless of what setting you have in the config panel.  Mine is set to not do it, but he still does.  So, I guess for this point, fix that setting so that it is honored and that will take care of this complaint.

 

Another FS2Crew one still related to icing...Landing again in completely clear skies.  No icing conditions on the whole descent.  No moisture/precip again for miles and miles and miles.  And yet, what happens when I park at the gate and run the shutdown checklist?  Your flaps are still not up, captain.   :mad:   Why did you not put them up, you idiot FO!?!?!

 

GSX, same theme here...there is icing conditions in 90+% of all flights apparently.  Again, it doesn't matter that there is no visible moisture, precip, not a cloud in the sky for miles and miles and miles.  Every time, he says wait to start engines due to icing conditions.  Really!?!??!?

 

If we can't reliably detect situations like these, for whatever reason(sim limitation, our own knowledge level, whatever), then why even put the feature in?  It is more of a detraction from the immersion than anything else.  For the less than 10% of the time that it is actually right, it just isn't worth it.

 

Sorry, just me ranting a little I guess.  These overall are great products.  But, it's the little things like these that keep them from being really great and cause that slight loss of immersion because you are constantly thinking to yourself - "that wouldn't happen in real life".

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Are you sure you're setting things up correctly. I do not heave either issue. GSX will ask about de ice only from -10 to 10C when it thinks there might be moisture. FS2Crew only does movement checks if I set the contaminated cold weathered procedures in the configuration. I personally think it actually adds a lot to the immersion to have to think about these things...not detracting.

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I do not heave either issue. GSX will ask about de ice only from -10 to 10C when it thinks there might be moisture

Yeah, but whatever its logic is is flawed.  Whether that be due to an FS limitation or its own logic.  it's wrong.  Just because the temp is in that range doesn't mean that it's icing conditions.  You need to have visible moisture too.  Or am I wrong?

 

 

 


FS2Crew only does movement checks if I set the contaminated cold weathered procedures in the configuration.

No, there is another topic on here too where other users are having issues with these settings not being honored.  I'm not telling it to do cold weather ops.  But it doesn't matter.  It does what it wants.

 

 

 


I personally think it actually adds a lot to the immersion to have to think about these things...not detracting

Of course, to each his own here.  For me, it's a detraction from the immersion when things are happening that wouldn't be in real life.  If there aren't icing conditions, don't do any of these icing related things!

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Yeah, but whatever its logic is is flawed. Whether that be due to an FS limitation or its own logic. it's wrong. Just because the temp is in that range doesn't mean that it's icing conditions. You need to have visible moisture too. Or am I wrong?

 

You're mostly correct (there's a few other things like if you flew in through icing conditions), but it seems like a waste to totally remove this feature just because you have to click a box that says "no thanks". 

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And, GSX...You're primarily a tool to enhance airline operations, right?  Most airline operations are from gates.  Yes, I do know that in the EU at least, parking at stands where there are no jetways is a far more frequent occurrence than in the US.  But still, I would not think that that is the majority case.  So, why is the darn bus always on for every single airport position by default?  At least have an option to default to no passenger bus.  It stinks to have to tell GSX at every airport gate out there(with the exception of airports developed by fsdreamteam) that there is a jetway at every gate.  What a pain.  Give the option to globally disable, please?

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At least have an option to default to no passenger bus. It stinks to have to tell GSX at every airport gate out there(with the exception of airports developed by fsdreamteam) that there is a jetway at every gate. What a pain. Give the option to globally disable, please?

 

There already is that option. You can select by gate, terminal, parking, or the whole airport.

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There already is that option. You can select by gate, terminal, parking, or the whole airport.

I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying here.  I know that I can select where I want to park on the airport.  What I'm saying though is that when you park at a gate(which is probably most often the case in airline type operations - with exceptions of course), the passenger bus should not show up.  It would be nice if there was a way to have no passenger bus be default for all airports parking spots vs the way it is now where the passenger bus is always there for all parking spots(with the exception being airports that they've developed themselves).

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I have found it odd too that GSX is all about that Icing Condition.   I look outside and there isn't a cloud for 300 miles in any direction.  "Don't start them engines!   You might kill us all because of icing conditions!!!!!!!"    It is a bit annoying, especially if you use FS Captain and you are on a timed schedule and you have to waste 5 extra minutes to start up the engines after FM Bill gets out of the way and says its cool to start the engines.   It should be done a little better.

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I have found it odd too that GSX is all about that Icing Condition.   I look outside and there isn't a cloud for 300 miles in any direction.  "Don't start them engines!   You might kill us all because of icing conditions!!!!!!!"    It is a bit annoying, especially if you use FS Captain and you are on a timed schedule and you have to waste 5 extra minutes to start up the engines after FM Bill gets out of the way and says its cool to start the engines.   It should be done a little better.

The only way GSX has to determine if deicing is appropriate is by temperature, which is why it gives you the option, if you don't want to deice just say no. No big deal. 

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The only way GSX has to determine if deicing is appropriate is by temperature, which is why it gives you the option, if you don't want to deice just say no. No big deal. 

 

Funny.  FS Captain is using many factors to run its icing simulation on the wings and engines in a far more realistic fashion.   That's why I look at FS Captain before engine start to see if there is a real icing problem and it doesn't matter if you refuse  icing from GSX the Mashaller will still tell you to keep them engines off while they push because it may destroy half the airport and cause an Earthquake in California that makes it slide off into the ocean.  +5C be damned!     :wink:

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So, why is the darn bus always on for every single airport position by default?  At least have an option to default to no passenger bus.  It stinks to have to tell GSX at every airport gate out there(with the exception of airports developed by fsdreamteam) that there is a jetway at every gate.  What a pain.  Give the option to globally disable, please?

 

GSX doesn't call a Passenger bus on "every single airport position". It correctly checks the scenery AFCAD, to see if there's a jetway and if there is one, it won't call a Passenger Bus or the front Staircase vehicles.

 

This of course doesn't have anything to do with the scenery made by FSDT, since the jetway is a standard feature of the AFCAD, so it will work with all default airports, and all 3rd party airports made with standard jetways and with recent versions, even with SODE jetways.

 

Of course, if have have a 3rd party scenery with static/fake jetways, there's no way GSX can detect them automatically.

 

But of course, GSX being the flexible program that it is, if you have such airports, you can easily customize them in minutes (only once, then it's saved in a custom airport .INI file), by selecting all parking positions that have a static jetway, and enable the relevant flag.

 

This can be done all in one click, just CTRL+Select all required parkings at once, and enable the jetway. If you know a whole terminal has jetways in all positions, just click on the terminal root name on the left, and it will select all parkings at once so, it shouldn't take more than a couple of minutes to do so, and you do it only the first time you use one of such airports.

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Umberto  you  cant please  everyone,  keep up the good  work and looking  fwd  to the next update  of gsx  your  planning

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GSX doesn't call a Passenger bus on "every single airport position". It correctly checks the scenery AFCAD, to see if there's a jetway and if there is one, it won't call a Passenger Bus or the front Staircase vehicles.

 

This of course doesn't have anything to do with the scenery made by FSDT, since the jetway is a standard feature of the AFCAD, so it will work with all default airports, and all 3rd party airports made with standard jetways and with recent versions, even with SODE jetways.

 

Of course, if have have a 3rd party scenery with static/fake jetways, there's no way GSX can detect them automatically.

 

But of course, GSX being the flexible program that it is, if you have such airports, you can easily customize them in minutes (only once, then it's saved in a custom airport .INI file), by selecting all parking positions that have a static jetway, and enable the relevant flag.

 

This can be done all in one click, just CTRL+Select all required parkings at once, and enable the jetway. If you know a whole terminal has jetways in all positions, just click on the terminal root name on the left, and it will select all parkings at once so, it shouldn't take more than a couple of minutes to do so, and you do it only the first time you use one of such airports.

Ok. So that makes sense. But still I ask, is there not a way where we can have it so that by default EVERY parking space, no matter whether it has a default jetway or not, can have the bus disabled - GLOBALLY. So that when people operate primarily airline operations at 3rd party sceneries don't have to manually go and tell it not to put a bus anywhere. I realize it's easy and takes a few minutes. But it's still a pain and would be nice to just have one switch for the whole planet.

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So that when people operate primarily airline operations at 3rd party sceneries don't have to manually go and tell it not to put a bus anywhere. I realize it's easy and takes a few minutes. But it's still a pain and would be nice to just have one switch for the whole planet.

 

But then, you would still have to switch it off when you go to an airport that have both proper jetways AND parkings in the apron, otherwise the Passenger bus and the Stairs will not arrive when you are parked on the apron.

 

And, we would be flooded by support questions by users that forgot to have the option enabled, asking why they don't have the Bus and the Stairs anymore, exactly like when someone complains about GSX not working, only to realize he forgot to set the parking brakes and he forgot he decided to move the "Verbosity" switch all the way down, so he couldn't see the message from GSX telling WHY it could't start. Happens all the time...

 

Global options to fix problems caused only by some sceneries, are very dangerous, because they can be easily mistaken for a GSX bug, if you forget you set them. That's why the customization is made per-scenery. Again, it takes only a minute to do it, and you do it only once for each scenery.

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But then, you would still have to switch it off when you go to an airport that have both proper jetways AND parkings in the apron, otherwise the Passenger bus and the Stairs will not arrive when you are parked on the apron.

 

And, we would be flooded by support questions by users that forgot to have the option enabled, asking why they don't have the Bus and the Stairs anymore, exactly like when someone complains about GSX not working, only to realize he forgot to set the parking brakes and he forgot he decided to move the "Verbosity" switch all the way down, so he couldn't see the message from GSX telling WHY it could't start. Happens all the time...

 

Global options to fix problems caused only by some sceneries, are very dangerous, because they can be easily mistaken for a GSX bug, if you forget you set them. That's why the customization is made per-scenery. Again, it takes only a minute to do it, and you do it only once for each scenery.

But, this is why I'm saying, make it an OPTION.  So a user such as myself can turn it off everywhere.  By default, you can ship the way it is - with buses all over the place.  But, for those like me that use a lot of 3rd party scenery that apparently have no way for you to detect there's a jetway, let me shut it off everywhere with the flip of a switch or check of a checkbox.  That way both sides are covered.  And on the 1 out of 100 airports that I park at that is not at a gate, I can then customize that one airport to bring the bus for that spot.

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But, this is why I'm saying, make it an OPTION.  So a user such as myself can turn it off everywhere.  By default, you can ship the way it is - with buses all over the place.  But, for those like me that use a lot of 3rd party scenery that apparently have no way for you to detect there's a jetway, let me shut it off everywhere with the flip of a switch or check of a checkbox.  That way both sides are covered.  And on the 1 out of 100 airports that I park at that is not at a gate, I can then customize that one airport to bring the bus for that spot.

 

I'll second this motion for a "full-off" option.  Just something to consider for the future.   :wink:

 

Ilya

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But, this is why I'm saying, make it an OPTION.  So a user such as myself can turn it off everywhere.  By default, you can ship the way it is - with buses all over the place.  But, for those like me that use a lot of 3rd party scenery that apparently have no way for you to detect there's a jetway, let me shut it off everywhere with the flip of a switch or check of a checkbox.  That way both sides are covered.  And on the 1 out of 100 airports that I park at that is not at a gate, I can then customize that one airport to bring the bus for that spot.

 

Of course it would have been an option, but my point was, like in case of the Verbosity slider that I took as an example, users will touch it, and they FORGET it's even there, so they return back to us, asking why GSX is "not working". This is what is happening and has happened, not something I think it might.

 

A *global* option that could potentially give the wrong impression there's a problem with the whole program, everywhere, just to adapt to some 3rd party scenery which still insist doing fake jetways, it's wrong. It's those scenery that are out of standard, they are the exception, not the rule, so the exceptions must be dealt individually, not the other way around.

 

 

 

And on the 1 out of 100 airports that I park at that is not at a gate, I can then customize that one airport to bring the bus for that spot.

 

So it's not just one option. You want both the "global" option AND an individual customization for each parking in order to IGNORE IT ? How much confusing you want it to become ? A Global option to reverse the normal GSX behavior, which is already correct for a proper scenery that respect the standard, and individual options to re-reverse it ?

 

Doesn't make any sense, since the most obvious solution is already there: simply flag the parking spots that have jetways, and that's it. No global option, and no risk of any confusion.

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So it's not just one option. You want both the "global" option AND an individual customization for each parking in order to IGNORE IT ? How much confusing you want it to become ? A Global option to reverse the normal GSX behavior, which is already correct for a proper scenery that respect the standard, and individual options to re-reverse it ?

Sorry, no, this is not what I'm saying.  I'm simply saying that for me and others like me, if we could have a setting to globally disable the bus by default, then we'd only have to do an individual customization for those rare parking spot that we park in that would need a bus to be sent.

 

So, it's not confusing.  It's basically just an opposite approach to what's being done now.  Right now, you are sticking to the "standard" argument.  If that's where you want to stand, so be it.  That's your choice and we have to live with it.  It's unfortunate though given that a lot of us do use 3rd party that, whether right or wrong, don't follow the standard.  So the end user ultimately suffers.

 

Anyway, I just think it would be a nice option.  I'm sorry maybe I'm not explaining it clear enough.  And, I'm sorry that maybe this is something you won't even consider.  Hopefully, in the not too distant future, we'll have other options(FS2Crew's UGCX) and maybe they will make things more flexible.  Though, I can't remember if they are really doing a pax boarding simulation in their product.  So, we might be stuck with GSX in the end anyway.

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Hopefully, in the not too distant future, we'll have other options(FS2Crew's UGCX) and maybe they will make things more flexible. Though, I can't remember if they are really doing a pax boarding simulation in their product. So, we might be stuck with GSX in the end anyway.

 

they are only  doing the push  back etc  nothing  to do with  boarding  buses  etc, loading  cargo etc

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Sorry, no, this is not what I'm saying.  I'm simply saying that for me and others like me, if we could have a setting to globally disable the bus by default, then we'd only have to do an individual customization for those rare parking spot that we park in that would need a bus to be sent.

 

So yes, it was exactly what you were saying.

 

So, it's not confusing.  It's basically just an opposite approach to what's being done now.

 

My point, exactly, you want to have the program reasoning backwards to what it should, by favoring the exceptions against the standard.

 

Right now, you are sticking to the "standard" argument.

 

That's because there IS a standard, which is already followed by all 20.000 default airports, and by a lot of 3rd part developers.

 

You might have had some kind of point, years ago, when nobody except us weirdos at FSDT, made addon sceneries with proper animated jetways. But today, both because GSX popularity and because there's also SODE as an alternative, there's isn't any reason to sell payware airports with fake/static jetways, as if it was 1999...sceneries from UK2000, FlyTampa, Flightbeam, Taxi2Gate now come with animated jetways.

 

Regardless if they use the standard SDK method, or SODE, we got them covered in GSX.

 

And, we like to believe that both GSX and the fact that we made animated jetways since FSX was released had a bit of an effect in this change of policy by many 3rd party developers so, by sticking to the standard, we put some weight to increase the quality of all available product out there.

 

 

It's unfortunate though given that a lot of us do use 3rd party that, whether right or wrong, don't follow the standard.  So the end user ultimately suffers.

 

Then you should simply lobby those developers still selling airports with static jetways to stop doing that, because it's them who are causing the problem in the first place.

 

You would expect a payware scenery should offer *at least* what the default scenery has, in terms of feature. A scenery it's not just nice textures, and by making static jetways, they are selling a payware product which is downgrading the default scenery, feature-wise.

 

If you, as an user of their product, cannot convince those developers to do so (they might say is too much work, that jetways are a performance cost, etc. ), you might suggest an easy alternative:

 

- Provide a GSX customization file with jetways flagged themselves, like many airplane developers are doing these days. While you said, as an user, it's too much of a pain to do this for each airport that needs this, it surely cannot be much of an effort for the scenery developer himself to make it for the airport they are selling!  It's enough to place the GSX .INI file together with the other .BGLs in the main scenery folder, and GSX will read it, so it's a minutes effort to made it, and a zero effort to add it to the installer.

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You might have had some kind of point, years ago, when nobody except us weirdos at FSDT, made addon sceneries with proper animated jetways. But today, both because GSX popularity and because there's also SODE as an alternative, there's isn't any reason to sell payware airports with fake/static jetways, as if it was 1999...sceneries from UK2000, FlyTampa, Flightbeam, Taxi2Gate now come with animated jetways.

 

I think the argument is more with parking spaces/gates that have no jetway. While in Europe it's common for aircraft to be parked on the apron away from the terminal, where a bus would be needed. In the US smaller airports do not all have jetways, but the planes park close to the terminal negating the need for a bus. I actually like FSDT's approach to this, The one thing that would be nice though, is the ability to set customization at both origin and destination airports in the beginning of the flight rather than have to do it for the destination after arrival. This way the flight would be seamless. As you say though you only have to do this once per airport you want to customize.

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I think the argument is more with parking spaces/gates that have no jetway.

That's not an issue. If the airport has jetways, and the developer made them either with the official SDK method, or with SODE, GSX can detect both cases, so it can safely assume the rest of the parking spots are in the Apron, needing a Bus and Stairs.

 

While in Europe it's common for aircraft to be parked on the apron away from the terminal, where a bus would be needed. In the US smaller airports do not all have jetways, but the planes park close to the terminal negating the need for a bus.

 

Which is why, GSX always had the option to separately disable the Passenger Bus only, to cover the case of a parking spot without a jetway that doesn't need a Passenger bus, but will still need Passenger Stairs.

 

Are you located in a small rural airport with no jetways where everybody walks to the airplane ? Just select the whole airport, and disable the Passenger bus for all parking spots at once. Two clicks.

 

I actually like FSDT's approach to this, The one thing that would be nice though, is the ability to set customization at both origin and destination airports in the beginning of the flight rather than have to do it for the destination after arrival. This way the flight would be seamless. As you say though you only have to do this once per airport you want to customize.

 

Exactly. Since you should do it only once, it's much better if you, before starting your actual flight, would just use the default FSX menu to pay a short visit to the destination airport to customize it.

 

Even if GSX offered you the ability to do that from its user interface, how different would be than just doing it from FSX ?

 

You would still have to select the destination airport from a very long list, just like the one in FSX, then GSX would still have to open the scenery AFCAD, and if you wanted to customize it visually, it would still have to move you there, triggering a scenery loading progress bar. No point of replicating exactly the same procedure as in FSX, it's a totally wasted effort.

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Are you located in a small rural airport with no jetways where everybody walks to the airplane ? Just select the whole airport, and disable the Passenger bus for all parking spots at once. Two clicks.

I realize, like everyone else, this doesn't take a ton of work to do per airport.  And, right, it is great to have this option at least.  But, it still doesn't mean that it would be nice to not have to do it all.

 

But, look, all I'm asking for here is the OPTION...I don't care who's to blame.  I don't care who's following standards or who's not.  The FACT is that some do and some don't.  That is what it is!  I'm not going to change Aerosoft's mind on their approach to designing their airports.  And, I'm also not going to not use those airports because they don't do this either.  Another FACT is that you make a product and I am a customer of that product and I am JUST ASKING for an OPTION!  I'm not trying to get into a holy war over it.  It's not my fault that 3rd party sceneries don't stick to standards.  But, why I am made to feel like a crazy person here for asking for an option?  Is there anyone else reading this that understands what I'm asking and agrees with me?  And would use said function?  Or, am I the only one?

 

I guess I might just have to write something that does this myself.  I know makerwys can get the info for me.  Then, all I'd have to do is create the GSX ini files configured without pax buses for all gates everywhere - by default.

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That's not an issue. If the airport has jetways, and the developer made them either with the official SDK method, or with SODE, GSX can detect both cases, so it can safely assume the rest of the parking spots are in the Apron, needing a Bus and Stairs.

 

I still don't think you are getting it. We know GSX correctly handles Jetway gates without the bus. The issue is gates that do not have jetways. In Europe these spots are usually a distance away requiring a bus to transport passengers there. Which is the GSX default. In the US though it's more common when a airport doesn't use jetways or don't have enough to handle the aircraft parked there, they still park close to the terminal, where the passengers walk right on the plane from the terminal. No bus needed. A good example of this is KHPN. There are only 2 jetways there. The other airliners still park in walking distance of the terminal so there is no bus. Like I said, like you I don't think a global option is the answer. It would be nice though if there was a way to do the customization without having to load up that airport in FSX/P3D. That's a nice to have though, maybe something to think about for future products.    

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I realize, like everyone else, this doesn't take a ton of work to do per airport.

That's your "ton of work":

 

- Select the whole airport, and disable the Passenger bus for all parking spots at once. Two clicks. Only done ONCE, for the first time you go to that airport.

 

I guess I might just have to write something that does this myself.  I know makerwys can get the info for me.  Then, all I'd have to do is create the GSX ini files configured without pax buses for all gates everywhere - by default.

 

Now I'm not following you anymore.

 

First you say it's a "ton of work" to select all parkings with fake jetways (or all parkings that shouldn't have Passenger bus), now you say that "all I'd have to do is create the GSX ini files configured without pax buses" ???

 

But that's precisely what the GSX configuration page does, when you select all parkings at once, and change something ( 2 clicks, or 3 if you want to set the Bus and the Jetways at the same time ): it creates GSX.INI file with ALL parking configured as you like!

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