>No I'm not joking>>"Heading changes , one per every few miles in opposite>directions to the preceding one">>Only when flying as a novice and only when you cannot hold>your course by correcting for wind / drift.That is not what I said. I said that ATC gives you a heading change and a few miles later gives you an opposite heading change like turn to 090------ turn to 115----- turn to 090---- etc. >>"people constantly being yelled at because they are 300>feet too high, then 300 feet to low">>Yes an issue>>"no way to declare an emergency">>True - but is that a VITAL component?>Yes when you fly complex aircraft that simulate failures like the LevelD 767 and the PMDG aircraft....>"no way to ... or fly a Sid or Star">>Very easy to setup - just like other programs - the SID or>STAR has to be entered in the flight plan - then the FS2004>ATC flies it.>How do you do that, when you don't know the active runway yet that you will be assigned? >"no way to change runways on departur or approach">>I can do this all the time - it's one of the easiest things to>change in FS.Explain how you do that, please, in detail.......>>You are definitely right that RC4 being the best - but your>statement of the inadequacies of FS2004 ATC shows that you>have apparently not taken the time to learned the capabilities>of Flight Simulator 2004 beyond the introductory novice>level.I have been flying MSFS since 1986 and real aircraft since 1978.

Maybe somebody has already suggested this, but sometimes refiling your flightplan helps. FS9 atc gets quickly confused when and if you decide to select another approach. More often than not you will never hear from ATC again until "Cessna XYZ you're leaving my airspace. Frequency change approved. blah, blah, blah." In this case, I refile my original flight plan and then usually get the proper vectors. ricardo

I think you have to download addon afcad files for the airports... but I am able, when asking ground for taxi clearence, to press the option which pops up in the window "select another runway for takeoff" or when on approach and contacting the tower "select another runway for landing" and it gives me transititon options after selecting the runway.The only thing keeping me back from RC4 is the voices and the lack of compatibility from editvoicepack. if the voices are made to speak faster, and we can use editvoicepack to update them with more callsigns and airport names, I will buy it in a second.

>option which pops up in the window>"select another runway for takeoff" or when on approach and>contacting the tower "select another runway for landing" and>it gives me transititon options after selecting the runway.>If you select another runway than what the ATC first assigned, you will be cleared to approach your selected runway but ALWAYS a circle-to-land clearance to the original one. To that's kinda cheating if you land straight in from that approach.. ;-)>The only thing keeping me back from RC4 is the voices and the>lack of compatibility from editvoicepack. if the voices are>made to speak faster, and we can use editvoicepack to update>them with more callsigns and airport names, I will buy it in a>second.>Ditto on the voices.

The key to using the default FS system to it's fullest is to use the real world approach plates written into the airport information files.The approaches display on the GPS when you select an approach.NEVER EVER CHOOSE VECTORS TO FINALFS will point your aircraft at a waypoint - but wind, the width of your turn, the speed of your reaction to instructions all make it very hard to stay exactly on course.Flight Simulator's worst ATC fault in my opinion is that it is reactionary in operation - not anticipatory. It reacts to what your aircraft (and AI aircraft if you have them) - it does not anticipate. Which is how real world controllers operate.The basic tutorial on using approaches is on your computer in the Learning Center - ??:Program FilesMicrosoft GamesFlight Simulator 9FSwebLearningCenterlc_index_KeyTopicsMain.htm - click on GPS. I've printed the entire thing out and it's quite marked up with notes and hi-lights.The critical points are how to use the Direct tofunction and the Procedures PagePlanning and using the default system can take a bit of work. If I go to my company's 2005 model Gulfstream 200 and program the FMS for the FINGR THREE STAR - all it will really do is add the following waypoints to the flight plan - LIT - MEEOW - GLOVE - HAKIN - MONTE - FINGR - SLANT.STARs and SIDs are only shorthand for a specific set of waypoints. That's all - a way to make filing and issuing clearances faster - and due to the number of waypoints on some - much more accurate - less likely to forget one.Some FS programs and complex FS aircraft will add those seven waypoints automatically (I assume RC4 has this capability), but I can set them in the FS2004 flight planner so they will work the same way.I can do the same thing with any SID or STAR - provided I have the plate or information. The US FAA plates are all available free on the internet - many other countries information can be found on VATSIM sites or in products like SimPlates.When I get close to one of the 10 airports in the Dallas/Fort Worth area which all use the same FINGR THREE STAR - the FS 2004 ATC will assign me an approach.HIT PAUSEChoose the option to select another approachChoose an approach to the runway you wish - make sure you DO NOT choose "Vectors to Final". That was written for people who want to have every heading and turn controlled by the ATC. And it ignores the approach plates.You will need some familarity with the destination airspace - or to take the time to work your way through the various otptions - you want an approach with a transition which is on your arrival route.Be very sure as you work your way back through the menus - that you are asking the ATC for an alternate approach.If I want to change ruways - I ask for the alternate runway first, then ask for the alternate approach.Now if aircraft are landing on Rwy 31L & 31R at KDAL - the ATC ain't gonna allow me to land on 13L or 13R - but I will be able to choose either of those two runway. Now KDAL is a bit unusual in that there are not transition approach procedures. Being in the middle of several jet airports - all approaches are Vectors - not a real FS friendly airport.But if I plan to land at KADS from the south - I could choose the GPS Rwy 33 approach with the ADDIS transition. The GPS and ATC will now transition me from the current flight plan / STAR to the ADDIS intersection - to the hold point where I can enter the holding pattern if I wish to descend more slowly - and to the runway - and to the missed approach hold point if I have to go around.The vast majority of major airports in FS have these type procedures with transitions written into the database.Note that you can zoom the GPS range in and out while selecting an approach to confirm it meets your needs.Now I don't normally pause - but when I was learning to use the approaches - I did.Notice I selected a RNAV/GPS approach - but I can still use the ILS to aid in landing.

Part two -The transition to approach is where FS differs from the real world - that Gulfstream, or the 20 year old CL-601 we used to have - would normally be told before crossing the Mississippi River "Cleared direct to MEEOW" - and the first officer will punch in "Direct to" for the MEEOW intersection - a bit southwest of Hot Springs, Arkansas - skipping the LIT VOR - the first waypoint in the STAR.Nearing MEEOW - the ATC normally issues a command "Cleared direct to FINGR" or sometimes if the STAR is being changed to JONEZ FOUR (one a pilot cannot file for in their flight plan) "Cleared direct to BYP - Bonham VOR"A real FMS will be able to bring up the new STAR and load it (a smart aircrew already has this as an alternate saved in the FMS if that unit is capable of that function).FS2004 cannot do that without pausing the system to go back to the flight planner - or to load a previously saved flight plan.I do not know if the PDMG or Level-D aircraft can change the STAR in the FMS that way.The FS2004 GPS will allow you to use "Direct to" which is a very heavily worn/used button in most jet cockpits - and many GA cockpits - that I see.If someone can come up with a product which would allow me to request clearance to a specific waypoint - that would be something to have.I've forgotten much of the earlier posts / thread comments - but want to address one more - this quote may not be exact:"You don't know which runway you will use at the destination - so you don't know which STAR to use"Over the past few years I've determined that the United States and some of the larger countries have very different concepts of a STAR / SID than much of western Europe and smaller countries.A STAR in the US for many airports will be from 350-400nm out to 100nm from the airport. Even arriving in New York for landing at Laguardia, JKF or Newark - the STAR basically ends about 70 nm from the airport. TransAtlantic aircraft coming into Kennedy or Newark are going to use the same STAR almost all the time.They will use different approaches and different transitions based on which runways are in use upon arrival.The US has a process used by the ATC controllers called IAP "Initial Approach Procedures" - which is the transition from a STAR to an actual airport / runway specific approach. Most of these are not publicly published because to some extent they vary based on wind, visibility and traffic load.In the US the process is STAR - Initial Approach - Final Approach.The STAR used depends more on the departure airport than the arrival runway. As with everything else in the aviation world - there are expections to the general rules.In smaller countries - each with their own ATC system - and each with their own Aviation Agency - the physical distance is smaller. Many STARS for Europe would be IAP in the US. A controller in London cannot assign a track and "STAR" for an aircraft inbound for EGLL while the aircraft is over Germany. That's the politics of the world.But a controller in Fort Worth will assign a track and a star for an aircraft over Alabama inbound for KDFW.The closer you get to the airport and the runway - the more runway specific the information and direction must be.For what ever reason - FS2004 was designed in the US by a US company and uses US procedures and processes the majority of the time.A product which can make FS workin in Europe like European controllers according to European procedures would be useful.I don't doubt anyone's piloting skills, or their experience with Flight Simulator. But most of us with a lot of experience with the program, and those others with extensive real world experience - normally do not do a very good job of exploring new features in an "upgrade" of a computer program.Be it Windows 2003 Server, MS Excel 2003, Word Perfect 12 or Flight Simulator. We already have a good knowledge and understanding of the product - and human nature being what it is - most of us have already dismissed portions of the application in favor of addons. This is expecially true of FS.The newest Radar Contact is a quantum leap forward for FS. It has some problems as noted on all the threads. No major ones I've seen - but some minor ones. In some cases these alone are enough to presuade a person not to purchase. In other cases, they are too minor to impact the purchase decision.FS on the other hand has a tremendous capacity to make flying more realistic - if we explore the options available.FS is not and never will be a real world ATC simulator.To be brutally honest - I don't really give a rat's patotie how realistic the startup procedure is in the PDMG or Level-D aircraft. That's not how I fly in FS - and if I could pass the medical and be a real world pilot - that's not how I would fly. I'd be in low and slow GA - the same place I spend most of my time in FS.When I want to fly a jet (though usually it's the dH Comet 4C) I don't want to spend two hours in pre-flight.Some people do - and that the wonderful beauty of FS - that I can make a 4 1/2 hour flight across the Atlantic from SBFN to GUCY in a DC-7 last night - and you can carry the PAX on a high volume - high intensity flight like EGKK to LFPG.This world and these procedures fit no one exactly but me.It's my world and I set it up the way I want.I also wish each of you the best in setting up your world the way you want.

>what was the msa of the arrival airport? in rc's controller's>page?>>jdHi JD.What is that? I really don't rememer JD. To tell you the truth, I even forgot which airport.But I shall look for that. if you could explain how that works or direct me to some place where I can read. I'd appreciate it.

whew, thread got a little sidetracked thereload your .plngo to your controllers pageyou will see the msa for the arrival airport. check that number to what the plate says. sometimes extended downwinds are because the msa is too high, and i never descend you below the msa.jd

>whew, thread got a little sidetracked there>>load your .pln>>go to your controllers page>>you will see the msa for the arrival airport. check that>number to what the plate says. sometimes extended downwinds>are because the msa is too high, and i never descend you below>the msa.>>jdWhat is msa? what does it stand for?Oh!.. Min Sector altitude!Nevermind.. will checkthat being high must be odd.. Cause I remember it was somewhere in Texa either in houston or DFW area. ITs all flat lands here.But I shall check very carefully next time.

let me know. send me the .pln and i'll fly it and see what happens to me. i need to test something else [email protected]

>>"people constantly being yelled at because they are 300>>feet too high, then 300 feet to low">>>>Yes an issue>>>>"no way to declare an emergency">>>>True - but is that a VITAL component?>>>Yes when you fly complex aircraft that simulate failures >like the LevelD 767 and the PMDG aircraft....They don't even have to be that complex... Set realism on max.Will never forget the day that I was headed into LAX, when the right engine caught fire. Nothing much I could do, but keep on approach. In a box, set the spot view, smoke was streaming from the engine, then fire, about 500 ft, the engine exploded, right wing fell off, was scattered across the landscape.

>The only thing keeping me back from RC4 is the voices and the>lack of compatibility from editvoicepack. Click Start, Run, enter dxdiag You can adjust the DirectX sound to make the voices better.As for callsigns, there are a LOT more available than in FS9. One I use is for a virtual airline "Freedom Air" that was not in FS9....

Thanks Reggie.Bruce.

I use EditVoicePack and have 4,380 valid callsigns which FS will recognize / pronounce - including a lot of military and small cargo callsigns.I have another 130 callsigns which have not been verified by EditVoice pack - in a few cases they are custom ones I've created."Freedom Air" is one of 110 VA only callsigns which are valid.I have added about 50 small airports to my voice pack and continue to add a few every month. People world-wide do the same.I've also got almost 300 aircraft manufacturers and models added to the voicepack.Rather than "Cleared to Kilo Charlie November Mike airport" my system says "Cleared to Cavern City"I can also fly in an ICAO Phraseology world, or an US FAA phraseology world - at my choice.From what I've read on the support forum - the additions of new callsigns, airport identification, aircraft manufacturer and aircraft model can only be made at the program level, not the user level.Correct me if I'm wrong - please.

If I want to change take-off or landing runway I cheat(?) and change the wind direction to suit the way I want to come in. So if you're directed to a runway you don't want you have to change the wind (because that's why you're going to that runway) to get ATC to change it's mind.Lemonadedrinker.ps. I guess it's not cheating anyway as the winds can shift around all the time.