Recommended Posts

Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

3 minutes ago, RuiMC said:

XP pb12 is out. Downloading now.

Thanks let me know what you think

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At a very quick first look, frame rates are maybe a little bit better (+5/10% better), between pb12 and pb11. pb8 is still the one with better FPS for me. pb12 looks stable but have not completed a full flight yet.

58b0670013262_X-Plane2017-02-2410-57-24-57.jpg.129931bff9e412513529ae4ee79a8d93.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It appears people are jumping the shark over the release date of XP11, which puts it about a month out.  Since we have now hit PB12, I have to question whether we will hit RC status, and if so, how many of those before an RTM?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think there is someway to go before it hits stable. The trees still glow, the banding in the sky is still there, but overall it's becoming a pretty solid release. These major issues (for me) will eventually get fixed at some point, maybe even after v11 goes live.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am parked at the gate here at Love Field in the IEXG 737 and I am noticing that the jetways and buildings.. appear to be.... shaking slightly.    Likethey are vibrating back and forth.  Anyone else notice scenery jittering when standing still?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Updated commands list and art assets"

Do they mean the GUI? So far i see no huge differences to PB11.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No trees fix, no ATC improvement, still band in the sky, no seasons, same water....you mean XP12 was released ...ah stupid me...it's PB12 ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Art assets generally refer to autogen or library objects. So maybe they added some more European buildings (I noticed the texture sheets were only half used).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, tonywob said:

I think there is someway to go before it hits stable. The trees still glow, the banding in the sky is still there, but overall it's becoming a pretty solid release. These major issues (for me) will eventually get fixed at some point, maybe even after v11 goes live.

Those issues you mention are cosmetic (also the moon and stars missing in HDR), but I would be very surprised if they're not fixed in a last pass for the release candidate versions.

These are non-critical for those of us mainly interested in the flight aspects of the sim, but X-Plane will be savaged by non-aviation reviewers on "gaming" sites and YouTube reviews if that sky banding is still there. Non-aviation gaming reviews (especially on Steam) are still important to overall X-Plane sales and interest.

I know we're all anxious to see a final version so we can start looking for updated utilities and plane models. But if it takes another month to fix the graphics glitches, then they should take that extra time (IMO). It's not like we can't fly the betas in the meantime, and they're getting more solid with every release.

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep it is certainly cosmetic, but I also think very important if you're a VFR flyer who spends most of the time looking out of the window. Also don't underestimate how much harm a Youtube video or screenshots can do to a potential buyer (The sky banding in particular is actually pretty bad).

I'm fully aware of how the XP eco system works, I remember going through the same thing with XP9 and XP10. I have no doubt XP11 will be an incredible, but it will take a few versions before it gets there (...and LR are hiring new developers). 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Paraffin said:

Those issues you mention are cosmetic (also the moon and stars missing in HDR), but I would be very surprised if they're not fixed in a last pass for the release candidate versions.

These are non-critical for those of us mainly interested in the flight aspects of the sim, but X-Plane will be savaged by non-aviation reviewers on "gaming" sites and YouTube reviews if that sky banding is still there. Non-aviation gaming reviews (especially on Steam) are still important to overall X-Plane sales and interest.

I know we're all anxious to see a final version so we can start looking for updated utilities and plane models. But if it takes another month to fix the graphics glitches, then they should take that extra time (IMO). It's not like we can't fly the betas in the meantime, and they're getting more solid with every release.

Well said sir, couldn't agree more.  It's pretty easy to spot gamers vs. simmers, and regarding the visuals, I don't put that at the top of my fix list.  Shaking ground is temporary, sky banding is what it is, and since I'm learning and enjoying flying, I'd suspect that is more important to LR right now.  They've been well aware of the banding and low fps due to texture optimization for a long time now, so that too will get sorted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, RuiMC said:

Here's a temporary sky art fix for XP11: http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/files/file/36067-better-sky/

 

It should be noted that while a lot of folks have created "fixes" for XP11, they don't necessarily hold throughout the beta, as they are attempting to modify art datarefs, and as each new beta is released, certain controls are locked and can cause Lua scripts to fail.  Honestly, it is good to wait until after final release to evaluate visual fixes to determine whether there is a need or not.  I've tried some of these Lua scripts for older betas, but they became a problem and I stopped using them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Jimm said:

 Shaking ground is temporary,

Ha ha, you hope. That's been there for as long as I can remember.

I also remember ATC was promised in XP10 for VFR traffic and that never happened (and I really wanted this one). LR always have an element of surprise in what they add as features, but sometimes the important ones are forgotten. I personally would have taken XP10 with better weather over a revised lighting and PBR system anyday

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Jimm said:

 It's pretty easy to spot gamers vs. simmers, and regarding the visuals

You should be careful with that remark (and feel the wrath of angry simmers). Just because some of us don't care so much that the circuit breakers aren't simulated doesn't make us any less of a simmer than anyone else (we all look for something different in a simulation). I personally find pleasure in using a real-world VFR chart and flying routes I'd like to do in real-life but can't because of various reasons.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, tonywob said:

Ha ha, you hope. That's been there for as long as I can remember.

I also remember ATC was promised in XP10 for VFR traffic and that never happened (and I really wanted this one). LR always have an element of surprise in what they add as features, but sometimes the important ones are forgotten. I personally would have taken XP10 with better weather over a revised lighting and PBR system anyday

 

Ok, let me clarify (since I always have to these days), the shaking ground is temporary UNTIL you start moving, taxi, and take off.

 

2 minutes ago, tonywob said:

You should be careful with that remark (and feel the wrath of angry simmers). Just because some of us don't care so much that the circuit breakers aren't simulated doesn't make us any less of a simmer than anyone else (we all look for something different in a simulation). I personally find pleasure in using a real-world VFR chart and flying routes I'd like to do in real-life but can't because of various reasons.

I never mentioned names and I could care less about angry simmers.  They have their fair share of forums on the net to express their disgust and nit pick every single little leaf on a tree in an imaginary world.  If they can't grasp the fundamental reason behind FLIGHT simulation, then I take no pity on them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Jimm said:

the shaking ground is temporary UNTIL you start moving, taxi, and take off.

I believe the issue is caused by the layering of textures on-top of each other and floating-point precision with UV mapping. However, to prove my point, I personally couldn't care less about this in the scheme of things, once the aircraft starts moving it goes away and the idea of a flight simulator is to fly. However when flying over a forest and seeing the trees glowing, that bothers me. I also couldn't care less if my Cessna stalls at 50 knots instead of 53 as it says in the book (and I wouldn't use the flight dynamics in the sim as a means of real-world training). A lack of moon phases and stars bothers some people, but just because something is not important to you doesn't mean you should belittle it.

13 minutes ago, Jimm said:

 If they can't grasp the fundamental reason behind FLIGHT simulation, then I take no pity on them.

Again, you're missing the point. Flight simulation depends on your point of view on what part of flight you want to simulate. Just because you don't find visuals important doesn't make you any more of a "real" simmer than others who do. Some people want to fly jets under the golden gate bridge, and others want to simulate start-up procedures in a 737 or fly drones, everyone enjoys their own thing.

 

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, tonywob said:

Ha ha, you hope. That's been there for as long as I can remember.

Yeah, that one (ground vibration) probably isn't getting fixed any time soon. It seems to be buried deep in the sim engine.

The odd thing about it, and maybe one reason it hasn't gotten more attention, is that I've seen the degree of ground shaking vary between user systems. In some videos I've seen, it's really bad... like a mild earthquake under the plane. But on my own system, it's just a tiny vibration that I barely notice unless I look for it. It's so minor that it doesn't cross the threshold where I'm really annoyed at it. But I've seen other cases where it definitely would be annoying. Maybe the fact that it varies on different setups makes it harder to fix, I dunno.

 

Quote

LR always have an element of surprise in what they add as features, but sometimes the important ones are forgotten. I personally would have taken XP10 with better weather over a revised lighting and PBR system anyday

Same here. The revised lighting looks good, and I'm looking forward to some fantastic bare-metal liveries now that we have reflective metal with pbr. But I'd trade that away in a heartbeat for better weather and seasonal terrain.

I know that's just personal bias though, and others might choose better built-in ATC and a thousand planes zipping around the skies (neither of which I especially care about).

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, tonywob said:

I believe the issue is caused by the layering of textures on-top of each other and floating-point precision with UV mapping. However, to prove my point, I personally couldn't care less about this in the scheme of things, once the aircraft starts moving it goes away and the idea of a flight simulator is to fly. However when flying over a forest and seeing the trees glowing, that bothers me. I also couldn't care less if my Cessna stalls at 50 knots instead of 53 as it says in the book (and I wouldn't use the flight dynamics in the sim as a means of real-world training). A lack of moon phases and stars bothers some people, but just because something is not important to you doesn't mean you should belittle it.

Again, you're missing the point. Flight simulation depends on your point of view on what part of flight you want to simulate. Just because you don't find visuals important doesn't make you any more of a "real" simmer than others who do. Some people want to fly jets under the golden gate bridge, and others want to simulate start-up procedures in a 737 or fly drones, everyone enjoys their own thing.

 

Then we can agree to disagree.  I see where you are coming from, but if you hadn't noticed, there are a lot of folks clamoring over visual issues and think it gets fixed immediately (or at least in the next beta) as they too think their issue is more important than someone else's.  From my point of view and from what I've read at other sites, it appears that LR is concentrating more on the base and leaving the other details for later.  Shaking ground, yes, it is annoying, and I never get my hopes up of it getting fixed, but it doesn't affect the startup and movement of the aircraft.  You may be correct in your assumption of what causes it and we'll see if it gets fixed.  I am sure there have been plenty of bug reports filed on it and it's on LR's list of things to do, as is a great many other things, but again, I do believe they have bigger fish to fry and trying to get that out of the way first.

For the record, I never stated that visuals were not important, on the contrary, visuals do add quite a bit to the flight experience, so with that said, i personally don't believe it to be high on anyone's list at LR.  In the meantime though, many great developers (yourself included) have created a wealth of add-ons as an alternative.  I gravitated more towards XP than the other sims because of it's "open source" feel, and taking notice to a great many people out there creating so many options for the user to try out, use, implement into their sim, and on top of that, the quality really shines through.

 

Btw, has anyone noticed that no sun or moon exists in XP11 right now?  Why would that be, considering they existed in XP10?  My assumption is that it's left for last and for a reason, so there again, is an issue that many have called out LR on, still hasn't shown up, but I suspect it will be there in the end.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Jimm said:

Btw, has anyone noticed that no sun or moon exists in XP11 right now?

They do exist, if you turn of HDR or use another GPU then NVIDIA. Frankly I find it strange that Nvidia got hit by this bug, as it is what most people are using.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Jimm said:

I see where you are coming from, but if you hadn't noticed, there are a lot of folks clamoring over visual issues and think it gets fixed immediately (or at least in the next beta) as they too think their issue is more important than someone else's

Absolutely and this is what likely makes it hard for a small development team to make their customers happy and it's evident reading the comments on this forum alone that some fixes mean absolutely nothing to someone (Anyone who can translate Austin's blog posts will understand), but for others it's a matter of throwing the sim in the trash and using another one (Looking at you jcomm) :). Also, just be aware that graphical issues and flight dynamic issues are dealt with by two different core developers. Austin seems to be harder to convince of FDE issues (and will require hard evidence and a good case), whereas Ben (on the graphics and scenery) will often confirm and agree if the reasons given aren't a user fault. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Paraffin said:

The odd thing about it, and maybe one reason it hasn't gotten more attention, is that I've seen the degree of ground shaking vary between user systems. In some videos I've seen, it's really bad... like a mild earthquake under the plane. But on my own system, it's just a tiny vibration that I barely notice unless I look for it. It's so minor that it doesn't cross the threshold where I'm really annoyed at it

I think anti-aliasing makes a big difference. When I was developing ENHA it was driving me mad because I thought I was doing something wrong. I spent a lot of time slewing around the scenery as I developed it and the shaking was pretty bad that I ended up baking multiple layers together to get rid of it (It didn't). However when I purchased a new computer, I noticed the effect became less when the anti-aliasing was turned up (and the 1070 can run it on max in XP11 without a blink of the eye).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now