Paraffin

XP11 Betas and the low idle setting post-pb12

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If you don't understand what a Beta (actually Early Access) is, and take the reasonable view that messing with XP10 free and payware planes shouldn't be done until they release official versions, please ignore this post. This is also about the piston props and turboprops, not jets (although some of this may apply).

I've been avoiding going into PlaneMaker to edit planes because I know the betas are a moving target. But pb12 introduced some changes that I think are going to stick, based on the dev blogs. Austin spelled out what would be happening way back in December:

http://developer.x-plane.com/2016/12/fight-model-improvements-done-for-x-plane-11-00/

And it was reiterated by Ben after Beta 12 (point #2 in the post):

http://developer.x-plane.com/2017/02/beta-12-and-engine-chaos/

The low idle settings are breaking some planes, not all, and it seems to be related to how low the low idle settings are in the original XP10 model. There are two models I bought recently that I wanted to fly -- The Carenado Areo Commander (piston prop) and the Carenado PC-12 (PT-6 turboprop). After pb12, the Aero Commander's engines would cut out when loading with engines running. The PC-12 would load with engines running, takeoff and cruise was fine, but I'd get this weird ITT fluctuation and engine fire when backing off the throttle before landing. 

I know I should wait until XP11 goes final and these planes are updated, but I finally broke down and edited them in PlaneMaker because I want to fly them in FSEconomy (the eye candy in XP11 is too good to pass up). So here's what I did, following hints in Austin's post above:

Carenado Aero Commander
Engines:
hi idle fuel adjustment - was 0.70, now 1.0
lo idle fuel adjustment - was 0.52, now 0.8

After that change, the Aero Commander now loads with engines running and they don't cut out in pb13. Haven't done any extensive flight testing yet.

Carenado Pilatus PC-12
Engines:
hi idle fuel adjustment - was 1.60, now 1.70
lo idle fuel adjustment - was 0.83, now 1.00

Just did a FSEconomy flight, takeoff to landing in pb13 , and it works fine without the ITT fluctuations. Very happy with this, so far.

I don't know what I'm doing here with these changes, just trial and error, So use this at your own risk. But the idea of increasing the low idle should be universal (I think). If you absolutely have to fly free and payware prop planes in XP11 betas after pb12, this may get them in the air until the developers release their official XP11 versions.

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Honestly I'm just miffed that suddenly after 12 betas they had to change it all.... just wrecked some planes that the devs will probably never address.

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21 minutes ago, ryanbatcund said:

Honestly I'm just miffed that suddenly after 12 betas they had to change it all.... just wrecked some planes that the devs will probably never address.

With respect, I don't get that attitude at all. Austin is changing the engine models for piston props, turboprop/turboshaft, and jet engines, with the goal to make them more like the real thing.

How can we object to that?

Who cares, if it comes late in the pre-release beta cycle, as long as the engines are more accurate when XP11 goes final? Don't we want that?

Yeah, it causes some inconvenience when we try to use older plane models. But this isn't a 10 year old, fossilized flight sim like FSX that's never updated. It just comes with the territory. And I've seen posts by many of the prominent devs for X-Plane indicating that they're just waiting for the final release to update their models. 

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Sure we want realism... but specifically thinking about Carenado - are they going to revamp their entire XP10 line (props/tp's) of addons even though a tiny fix is needed?  I'm not so sure.  Then again some of the gear doors are already broken in XP11 from an earlier beta.

OT:  Speaking of Carenado, I read over at the Org than Dan is considering not focusing on their custom G1000 and trying to import the default XP11 device when it comes out - which could be a good thing - means procedures that are updatable natively to XP11.  Their current G1000 looks nice but is a FPS killer (at least on my 2500K @ 4 GHz)

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Even if the devs don´t update their aircraft, there will probably be someone who posts a short guide on how to change the planes in Aircraft Maker, so that even a X-Plane layman can update them.

I also welcome all steps taken to make the simulator more realistic, even if it means breaking older stuff.

Jan

 

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I would think that accurate flight model is the most important thing in a simulator. That is the most important thing to me, second and almost equal is accurate 3d cockpit.

Of course I do like the eye candy of realistic scenery. :-)

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Also with respect - I get impatient like everyone else but I also get that version 10 is a complete product and all addons up to this point were created with that in mind.  I will not get miffed or complain about advances to XP11 "breaking" addons that were not built around XP11.  If I did I would basically be saying "Hey Austin...I know it's a new version and I know I signed up to beta test but I don't want you to advance this product beyond the capabilities of your last one otherwise my older addons might not work the same".  I mean come on!  Sounds a lot like P3D and FSX using the same 10-yr old+ engine.  Limiting your design advance to maintain "backward compatibility" will only keep us in the same realm for years with no real advances.  PLEASE LR keep advancing this engine to be the best that current and future hardware can push!!!  If I have to wait for 3rd party to catch up OH WELL!  And again...it's a BETA...shouldn't be miffed about ANYTHING 3rd party at this point.  And NON-current hardware owners should be perfectly at peace with version 10 or earlier depending on their PC.  Think about it.  Peace out.

**sorry - all addons except for a couple weather addons**

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All good thoughts, thanks for your opinions!  I believe Austin did say XP10 planes would work in 11 though.  And most of them really do!

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5 hours ago, sparkie66 said:

Anyone know what the idle adjustments are for the ixeg?

Thx

I think the IXEG  doesn't  need adjustements

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4 hours ago, charleslee201 said:

I think the IXEG  doesn't  need adjustements

You think wrong.

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27 minutes ago, charleslee201 said:

hi 1.10

lo 1.04              then

lol

and

thanks

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If anyone has the FF 767 I did the following and it worked a treat:

hi idle fuel adjustment - 1.60
lo idle fuel adjustment - 1.60

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Anyone tried settings for the Quest Kodiak and found a satisfying solution?

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I am working with Laminar on several issues. Internally, the problem of low idle has been resolved, and the ITT problem as well.  One good thing about having a large fleet of planes is that if you time it right, and you start pushing them through the system, it is a time when it can relatively easily be hashed out whose problem it is: whether Laminar's or the add-on author's.  The Quest Kodiak now works better in my (post PB15) version, but some adjustments might still be required, which I'll be happy to publish as soon as the sim stabilizes a bit more.  Currently, there's still stuff I'm finding, and I'm only about halfway through my testing.

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On 3/7/2017 at 2:52 PM, charleslee201 said:

hi 1.10

lo 1.04              then

I tried these numbers in the last few Betas as well as RC1 and once the engines are started and the parking brakes released the aircraft actually goes backwards. You have to almost give it full thrust and once it is rolling reduce to an idle.

Anyone got this working in RC1?

Richard

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