Flight Sim World - First Impressions

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, jabloomf1230 said:

Correct me if I'm wrong. A beta is a full-featured version of the software which might still have minor bugs that need to be corrected before the final release. On the other hand, "early access" may have bugs, but it is also missing features that may be added before the final release. I have no problem with either approach, as I have participated in both open and closed beta tests and also the recent "early access" for XP11. But let's not fool ourselves as to what "early access" is  all about. It's not some gracious gift from a software developer.

Correct, but I don't see your point. Early Access is another term for alpha that is used in marketing because it sounds nicer. But nobody is forcing you to participate in that either. Just wait what will develop, maybe you'll like it, maybe not. (Another side note: XP11 was more like an open beta in my opinion, although they did add some minor features along the road.) 

[HiFlyer 9,361]

57 minutes ago, flyforever said:

Sometimes developers make simple mistakes in calling their new product a new product. I am sure that if DTG had called FSW FSX64 or FSX Plus, people would not be saying that this is like fsx.

An interesting point. 

[fs4fun 366]

47 minutes ago, jabloomf1230 said:

Correct me if I'm wrong. A beta is a full-featured version of the software which might still have minor bugs that need to be corrected before the final release

My understanding of Alpha test is that the software has met some acceptance criteria for an internal test team (or other people who have a lot of contact with the development team) to begin executing their test plans. The acceptance criteria help to avoid wasting test engineer time trying to work with a non-functioning product.

Beta test is the same idea, but with a wider audience and more stringent acceptance criteria.

"Full-featured": Not so much in an Agile model. In this case we'd be expecting many iterations before code completion but each iteration still has to meet acceptance criteria.

Note that acceptance criteria does not mean "bug-free", it just means it works well enough that testing can proceed.

Personally I think DTG is doing well so far in that the product is most definitely useable. There are bugs but they are not show stoppers in terms of trying the product and giving feedback.

https://www.scrum.as/academy.php?show=2&chapter=4

[Elvensmith 165]

All this well and good but please bear in mind this is DTG we're talking about.

They have just caused a bit of a stir over in train sim world by announcing that the latest update to Train Sim World is the last major patch to the programme and they are scaling back, when the biggest issue - the lousy physics implementation - remains completely unresolved.

 

Not being negative, just pointing out where this company is concerned it's best not to let expectations run too high. And I'm quite happy to be proved wrong in due course.

 

[Bobsk8 12,737]

1 hour ago, Elvensmith said:

All this well and good but please bear in mind this is DTG we're talking about.

They have just caused a bit of a stir over in train sim world by announcing that the latest update to Train Sim World is the last major patch to the programme and they are scaling back, when the biggest issue - the lousy physics implementation - remains completely unresolved.

 

Not being negative, just pointing out where this company is concerned it's best not to let expectations run too high. And I'm quite happy to be proved wrong in due course.

 

Typical DTG Protocol, that is what I experienced with their Trainsim for a couple of years, I seriously doubt that FSW will be any different. 

 

[vololiberista 205]

2 hours ago, Elvensmith said:

All this well and good but please bear in mind this is DTG we're talking about.

They have just caused a bit of a stir over in train sim world by announcing that the latest update to Train Sim World is the last major patch to the programme and they are scaling back, when the biggest issue - the lousy physics implementation - remains completely unresolved.

 

Not being negative, just pointing out where this company is concerned it's best not to let expectations run too high. And I'm quite happy to be proved wrong in due course.

 

It's apparent that TSW has flopped just as did Flight School. The latest video on MP's YT channel is a month ago! I think simmers were disappointed when TSW went live to find that the full programme was no different in content to the beta. They played it out and then lost interest. Travelling at 20 mph for x number of hours is ok once or twice but after that you loose interest very quickly if there is nothing new. As for FSW well it's more than obvious that developers are working like beavers to have ready 64bit versions of their products. But not for FSW!!!!

[HiFlyer 9,361]

39 minutes ago, vololiberista said:

As for FSW well it's more than obvious that developers are working like beavers to have ready 64bit versions of their products. But not for FSW!!!!

To be fair, I think it may not be that developers are uninterested: More like they are a bit hamstrung until an SDK appears. FSDeveloper for instance, quickly opened a FSW subforum, but as of now could only post that there was nothing to report....... yet.

[Chock 17,769]

1 hour ago, vololiberista said:

As for FSW well it's more than obvious that developers are working like beavers to have ready 64bit versions of their products. But not for FSW!!!!

I would have thought you (of all people, since you like the VC-10) would have been aware that this:

https://www.justflight.com/product/vc10-jetliner

Is being developed by Just Flight, who are on record as saying this:

'We strongly welcome a new iteration of FS - we've been waiting for ten years! Once the full SDK (Software Development Kit) becomes available, our development team will be exploring the possibilities with FSW - for creating new content as well as possibly porting over titles developed for FSX. We've been working with DTG for some time now, adapting some of the products we've developed for FSX and Train Simulator for distribution via Steam. As a result we have a very good relationship with them and this is set to continue with FSW.'

That doesn't sound much to me like they are not interested in doing stuff for FSW, more like what it is, i.e. the features of FSW are not yet finalised, hence there is no SDK yet, and they are awaiting the arrival of it. Presumably will be a priority for DTG to get that out to developers when they can, especially those who as noted above, say they 'have been working with DTG for some time'.

[carbonbasedlifeform 179]

I do think they should have called it FSX Plus but people would have complained that they were being charged for an update.

 

[Chock 17,769]

The product name Flight Simulator is trademarked by MS, so they'd have had to have paid a considerable sum to use that name for a new product:

http://www.trademarkia.com/flight-simulator-74527208.html

By way of example as to how much one might be looking at to use a trademarked name, way back in 1990, Apple paid one million dollars to Daimler Benz AG for the rights to name their then new computer, The Macintosh Classic, since the name Classic was trademarked. That million bucks bought Apple the rights to the name for just five years. Needless to say, since the Mac Classic was discontinued in 1992, Apple didn't renew that contract. Personally, to save a million bucks, I'd think of a different name too lol.

I'd suggest they call it: Super Expanded, Xtended Bitdepth, Online Multiplayer Base Simulator - aka: S.E.X.B.O.M.B.S. which would considerably improve its chances as far as SEO is concerned lol.

[Murmur 3,944]

Paraphrasing Mark Twain, I'd say: "The reports of FSW death are greatly exaggerated".

[WotanUK 289]

Hmm it's an interesting strategy.  I think the real issue might be by the time it's fully released with the SDK the serious simmers will largely have moved over to P3Dv4/X-Plane, at that point (purely based on the financial investment) these people will be reluctant to move over unless FSW becomes something very special.  At the moment it seems very likely that P3Dv4 and FSW will not be able to share add ons, that means developers coding for two different sims maybe even more if they keep coding for the 32-bit environment.

That leaves FSW picking up casual simmers and new blood.  There might be money in that, i am thinking DLC that looks fantastic but systems lite, but it's certainly not going to be for me and i dare say the majority of people on here.

To quote Robert F. Kennedy. "we live in interesting times".

[HiFlyer 9,361]

8 minutes ago, WotanUK said:

 I think the real issue might be by the time it's fully released with the SDK the serious simmers will largely have moved over to P3Dv4/X-Plane, at that point (purely based on the financial investment) these people will be reluctant to move over unless FSW becomes something very special.  At the moment it seems very likely that P3Dv4 and FSW will not be able to share add ons, that means developers coding for two different sims maybe even more if they keep coding for the 32-bit environment.

I was just going to suggest this, but was dithering. (I've gotten a bit paranoid about my posts)

DTG doesn't really have an entirely open window of opportunity with the enthusiast community, regardless of the Eula concerns of which we must not speaketh.

In real life, there is such a thing as momentum, and the product that has it, generally ends up with the market share to substantiate the point.

[G-RFRY 1,712]

1 hour ago, carbonbasedlifeform said:

I do think they should have called it FSX Plus but people would have complained that they were being charged for an update.

 

isn't that what P3D user`s are doing V4 is version four and V5 will be version five or is it a totally new sim.

Ray Fry.

[Chock 17,769]

Although it does indeed appear that P3D and FSW add-ons will indeed be different in terms of the product one downloads and the product one uploads (as a developer), I don't think they'll be so different as to make it a really major issue for any developer who wants to sell in both markets. After all, at present one can add many FSX aeroplanes to FSW simply by copying and pasting the folder from FS and editing the Aircraft config file a bit with some additional information and that makes them flyable and also adds them as AI aircraft too. It's true doing that won't necessarily mean everything works perfectly, since it depends on how gauges and stuff were coded, but with the release of an SDK there will either be a guide to how and what one has to do to get things compatible, and quite likely some utility(s) to facilitate that process as well, since DTG will not want it to be a pain in the arse for developers. And it remains a fact that many P3D add ons do cost more than FSX ones (typically 25-30 percent more), so the costs of developing for the two, and selling for the two may not be as disparate as many might suppose.

With regard to the possibility of DTG missing the boat and letting XPlane and P3D pick up all the custom; there is no denying that 'thrice blessed is he who gets in the first blow', so it certainly is a factor, but to be honest I've never known any serious flight simmer not be interested in having options and being curious about any new sim platform possibility (or two, let's not forget AeroFly FS2 also coming up on the rails too, with its extremely attractive frame rates and default terrain which micturates over the default terrain in all other sims from a very great height).

The market is not exactly the same for P3D as it is for other sims; it's a 'pro' platform, with a correspondingly pro licence price, and as much as there are many plus points for XPlane, it still needs a lot of tweaks and additions to even make it as more viable a serious airliner simulation platform than even FS9. So the door might not be as closed as it looks for FSW, and indeed AeroFly FS2, although having said that, it doesn't mean they can float along forever, which to be honest is probably an unlikely scenario for at least DTG anyway, since they will want that sucker out the door and earning money sooner rather than later if we know anything about them, and with two service updates already out the door, plus the mission creator already available on Steam, it doesn't look to me like they intend to hang about for very long before making FSW a revenue stream.