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Flight Sim World - First Impressions

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Most of what is said in that video is very ill informed, or at best doesn't make a lot of sense.

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6 minutes ago, Chock said:

Most of what is said in that video is very ill informed, or at best doesn't make a lot of sense.

Agreed. But he mostly does news shows now anyway. 

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I thought that was a very balanced review, i am inclined to agree that the Matt Davies review was incredible one sided, but 'Froogle' i think was very fair indeed.

What parts do you feel he was ill informed on or that don't make sense???

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50 minutes ago, WotanUK said:

What parts do you feel he was ill informed on or that don't make sense???

Lots of comments are misleading or incorrect. I won't list them all, but there are many. Here are a few:

Saying that there is a requirement for third parties to sell through Steam may be ostensibly true, but it disregards the fact that they can also be sold elsewhere too (more on this below).

Stating that 'it would have been nice to see DTG involving other developers earlier so that it has add-ons ready when out of the gate, as per LM and P3D' is nonsensical too, since it isn't 'out of the gate' at all yet, it isn't even out of early access, yet as we've seen already, it is getting regular tweaks and feature updates (three to date that we know about, two of which have been released and one coming shortly) and it disregards the fact that numerous developers have demonstrably been involved in the development of right from the off as we know (and even prior to that, since some of their content was in Flight School), including A2A, Carenado, Turbulent Design, Orbx, and there are many more who are also working with DTG on the quiet to have stuff ready for it too, as most people are aware, and some have even said this.

So it should be readily apparent that there will be stuff in the pipeline ready to go when it makes it to a release date. Yet with this in mind, there is still the tiresomely oft-repeated notion that developers will have a problem with getting on board with the sales model, which, given the aforementioned, is not only not correct, but also completely disregards the rather obvious fact that TPDs have been perfectly happy to sell through Steam for FSX-SE content, so it should be more than evident to anyone who takes more than a second to think about it, that if TPDs were happy to do that, then they will more than likely be happy to continue such arrangements with selling stuff for FSW. And as I've already pointed out plenty of times, there is also the rather obvious fact that when suggesting that selling through Steam and having them take a cut is an unpalatable option, completely disregards the fact that it provides exposure to a truly massive new market for a developer, and is quite clearly the reason why many developers went with that arrangement to sell stuff for FSX-SE.

Yet even if one were to disregard all of that, it's quite evident that DTG know what they are doing when selling add-ons for their products, as the success of that exact sales model with their train sims has more than made apparent.

Now I know the caveat of 'it is early access' is repeatedly mentioned in the video, but when we know that is the case, why bother trawling up all the above nonsense in a video when a second or two's thought should have made it obvious that it is indeed nonsense?

If one is going to set oneself up to be some kind of self-appointed youtube pantheon of flight sim knowledge and opinions, then one should at least have some opinions which appear to have been well thought out, instead of trotting out the same old rubbish we've heard from numerous others who clearly haven't thought about it with much insight either.

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1 minute ago, Chock said:

Lot's of comments are misleading or incorrect. I won't list them all, but there are many. Here are a few:

Now I know the caveat of 'it is early access' is repeatedly mentioned in the video, but when we know that is the case, why bother trawling up all the above nonsense?

Before i reply in earnest, may i ask you a question Alan?  Have you got some involvement in this Sim...you seem awfully wedded to it.  Apologies if not and you are just passionate.

Your argument appears to boil down to Steam, yes he does mention that in passing, he actually spends less time mentioning it in the video than you do in your reply.  I am not sure that making legitimate concerns known over developers who have active said they are worried regarding the Steam platform qualifies as "nonsense" i mean we are talking some major players.  

So, your entire "most of what he said" boils down to the 20 seconds or so he spent mentioning the above entirely valid point?  I think that you have been unfair to this review, perhaps because it doesn't echo what you feel about the sim?

DTG's Train Sim strategy is basically, lot's of low quality DLC, is that what you want to see...A2A or PMDG aircraft swamped by Wilco quality re-skins of default aircraft?  If DTG are talking to developers in the background, how is he supposed to know that...everything i have read from developers is pretty negative, PMDG's statement being the standout, Aerosoft haven't committed to the Sim either, saying they will be waiting until A, it's out of early access and B, the full SDK is released.  

I think the primary points he brought up we can agree on, i have experienced them as well:

LOD set low enough that a circle around the aircraft is clearly visible (yes i know this can be changed in the cfg file)

Simplified settings screen

He doesn't mention the horrific brightness of the runways (somewhat fixed), my first view of EGCC from above and i thought the runway had been replaced with polished white marble

The night lighting is somehow even worse than FSX.

They are just the points i can remember.  I am not even including the bugs with the aircraft because i feel they are to be expected.

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59 minutes ago, Chock said:

Saying that there is a requirement for third parties to sell through Steam may be ostensibly true, but it disregards the fact that they can also be sold elsewhere too (more on this below).

But it's not just ostensibly true, it's actually true! He didn't specifically say that they can only sell through Steam.

59 minutes ago, Chock said:

...and there are many more who are also working with DTG on the quiet to have stuff ready for it too, as most people are aware, and some have even said this.

I've obviously not been keeping up with this. Most comments that I've read have been from developers complaining about not having access to the SDK.

59 minutes ago, Chock said:

Yet with this in mind, there is still the tiresomely oft-repeated notion that developers will have a problem with getting on board with the sales model, which, given the aforementioned, is not only not correct, but also completely disregards the rather obvious fact that TPDs have been perfectly happy to sell through Steam for FSX-SE content, so it should be more than evident to anyone who takes more than a second to think about it, that if TPDs were happy to do that, then they will more than likely be happy to continue such arrangements with selling stuff for FSW.

I agree that those who already sell on Steam will probably be more than happy to continue. However, some of the big players like PMDG and A2A, to name just two, don't currently sell on Steam and may not want to do so in the future. We just don't know.

59 minutes ago, Chock said:

If one is going to set oneself up to be some kind of self-appointed youtube pantheon of flight sim knowledge and opinions, then one should at least have some opinions which appear to have been well thought out, instead of trotting out the same old rubbish we've heard from numerous others who clearly haven't thought about it with much insight either.

I don't think that Froogle does think of himself as some sort of self-appointed expert - he always seems quite open to criticism. I watched his video and think he gave a fair account of how HE perceived FSW. Indeed, I think there were things that he could have mentioned but didn't - the terrible state of the PAPIs and the very short range at which objects on the airfield popped into view, for instance. Far from just "trotting out the same old rubbish", the points he raised were clearly illustrated in the video and, as such, were difficult to argue with.

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DTG's FSW will have to make front to those intrerested in derrating it... It is still, for me, the best option in terms of investment, for the sequel to teh MSFS Saga...

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1 hour ago, Chock said:

Saying that there is a requirement for third parties to sell through Steam may be ostensibly true, but it disregards the fact that they can also be sold elsewhere too (more on this below).

The economics of that situation are still a potential drawback for some developers. But I don't think it's even the most important aspect of DTG's marketing plans. The requirement for all developers to pay their own separate license fees for use of trademarked names, logos, etc. is going to have a major impact on how many smaller developers sign on. It will hit the freeware content providers even harder.

As far as I know, FSW is the only one of the four new 64-bit platforms with this additional licensing requirement for 3rd party developers.

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And the elephant in the room is: No Fsuipc

Apparently DT have snubbed Peter Dowsons efforts at communication.

That alone is enough that I will not go anywhere near FSW.

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32 minutes ago, vortex681 said:

However, some of the big players like PMDG and A2A, to name just two, don't currently sell on Steam and may not want to do so in the future.

Actually without looking too deeply I can say that a2a, aerosoft, carenado, orbx, 29 palms, rex, milviz and hifi simulations all sell on steam. A lot  of others are more sim lite  but those I listed are all serious sim companies.

Not all of their products are necessarily published but it shows they are happy to sell on there. Steam is great to get exposure to new people and then once they realise they like a2a or aerosoft they might go looking and then buy direct. There are lots of ways this can work out.

Don't write anything on steam off yet and don't underestimate the desire for expanded markets by all these companies. If fsw spreads they will all want to expand their horizons either through steam or from their own sites.

I'm happy to keep flying p3d or xplane with all my add ons for now but I'm also hopeful for fsw.

Chris

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Just Flight have stated on there forum they will looking to support the sim with product and are looking to upgrade some FSX products to FSW .

I also note the review is posted on here by a aerofly2 ######, that like me posting P3Dv4 vid reviews that are not complementary to the sim as some are but why would I.

the sim of your choice is yours alone.

Ray Fry.

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He did mention in the reviews that the missions are a lot of fun.:biggrin:

At $25 it's a bargain for the beginner. IMHO

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