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Murmur

What is NOT modelled in FS?

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I have noticed that certain things, although called for in checklists, don't seem to do much. For example, fuel boost pumps and fuel primers. They do seem to have effects on certain gauges - but I have never known an a/c to refuse to start because I haven't used the primer.Ther are also other things like carb heat, pitot heat etc, that I have never used in 3 years of Simming.So what are your experiences in this. It would be great to have an a/c that had systems that worked as in RL.Barry

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You should better be using pitot heat in icing conditions or your pitot probe will freeze up and you will have a malfunctioning airspeed indicator with either no indication or vastly wrong indications. This is actually modeled in FS.

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Guest Vilk

VOTARCALATC IQ > 12swooning ladiesmedical examsknowledge and time requirementsladies who couldn't care lessand that they-can-kiss-my-back feeling when you're up there

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Good - first non-smart arse answer. Pitot heat. Probably because I have never flown in freezing conditions (as far as I know) , I have never had to turn the pitot heat on and have never experienced the ASI fluctuating.Thanks Barry

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Guest Vilk

hmmm... not to your question, is it? :-)anyway, sorry to disappoint. no offense meant. i actually wanted to say something quite serious through my s.a. answer ;-)oink oinkvilk

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As far as I remember it will just drop to zero instantly - wonder if that would be realistic behavior.But I also really hope things you mention will be modeled in the future, maybe even in FSX. Also the fact that weather conditions have an influence to how long the engine needs to start up etc... Would be cool to see that modelled.

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Hi,It depends on the panel programmer if those items have any effect on engine starting, etc. MS codes all their default panels to start up the engines no matter the settings, since they would get inundated with support calls from newbies if they didn't. However, for example the FSDZigns 049 Connie will not start up if the engine is cold and you do not flick the Primer. You also have to have the fuel pumps on as well.Keep in mind there is often no way for a panel programmer to prevent an engine from starting if the user uses the keyboard to start them up (i.e. Ctrl E or M+++), other than cutting the fuel supply. This then leads to swarms of support requests since they can't get the engines to start without actually reading the manual. In my panels I just let them...Take care,--Tom GibsonCal Classic Propliner Page: http://www.calclassic.comFreeflight Design Shop: http://www.freeflightdesign.comDrop by! ___x_x_(")_x_x___

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The pitot heat has been covered. The boost pump in something such as a Cessna 172, or Piper Archer is secondary to the engines mechanical pump. The engine's mechanical pump would have to fail, in order to really require the boost pump. And that's the reason you use the boost pump for takeoffs; in case the mechanical one fails. Boost pumps might also supply pressurized fuel to a priming system.FWIW, airplanes with fuel injection, such as the 172SP, use boost pumps with a higher pressure rating, than those with carbed engines, but that's another classroom lesson.Priming systems are not a requirement to start. Most small aircraft engines will start one way or another without it. It's all going to vary with temperature, use of pre-heating, etc.As to carb heat, it's only going to matter if ice does actually form. I've known many pilots who have never needed to use it. I haven't either. And last year, we flew a lot of winter mountain flights, where the outside temp was -6 F, but sunny skies. Some have used partial carb heat if they have a carb inlet temp. gauge, but as a general rule, it's left off, unless ice is evident.L.Adamson

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Guest Rockcliffe

There are some things that aren't modelled, but I do them anyway, just for the 'as real as it gets' feeling. Does it really matter if I switch off the air conditioning before takeoff for added power? I don't think so. What about arming the emergency lights? No, but it does add to the immersion factor to run through it on the checklist.And in Stellan Hilmerby's DC9 panel, for one, you had better turn on the windshield heater or you won't be seeing very much as you climb.And Barry, if you have never had to use pitot heat, you should come up to Canada to fly once in a while ;-)Regards,BlairCYOW

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Guest Vilk

VOT is a VOR test facility--allows to make sure your VOR equipment performs up to standardARCAL are pilot-controlled airport lights, something along these lines: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilot_Controlled_Lightingthe canned ATC rarely knows what they want, let alone what you want :-)the remaining points were actually more interesting. for a home PC-based, popular-appeal flight simulator, FS9 is pretty much "there". when i consider some of the available add-ons, i cannot think of many radical improvements that could be made to it. what i'm thinking of is an "aviation simulator"now a personal file with a medical history, licensing system that allows flying specific types of aircraft, otherwise unavailable, real-life theory exams, license conversion when you move to another country, career path, operators, logbooks, maintenance or rental bills for private pilots, aviation stores, budgeting, lesson and rental bookings, clubs and associations... you can keep adding to the list all night. all of these are relatively easy to program: no flight models, no graphics to speak of, just solid object and data models and a half-decent GUIto use a combat sim simile, FS9 is great on tactics--i'd love to see some strategy :-)i know it's there, in the future. i'm just very impatient :-)

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Guest Rockcliffe

Bill Lyon's Piper Apache included ARCAL lighting at the private airstrip in Minnesota. It's activated by tuning the ADF to a certain frequency. Quite cool.

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Guest Vilk

hey, i stopped at rockcliffe a couple of weeks ago, driving through ottawa, tried to rent something, but it was the first flyable day in a while and they were fully booked... so i went to the museum instead :-)cheersps. yup, i know about the apache. thanks

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Even if some feature is IN (like carb. heat) it does NOT mean it is actually modelled with any degree of realism. It may be modelled crudely because the details were overlooked or simply because it would take enormous amount of time to do it right.Michael J.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/pmdg_744F.jpghttp://sales.hifisim.com/pub-download/asv6-banner-beta.jpg

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Vilk,Thank you for the explanation. I agree, the future holds lots of good stuff as this hobby is just getting better over time. Personally, I am looking most forward to the swooning ladies you mentioned. Yahoo! Can't wait.

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Guest Ridge_Runner_5

Jordan Moore's Bell 412 has deployable buoys for water landings...I know that airports dont have properly functioning pushback trucks...closest thing is the LevelD 767 has a ground contact unit where you can ask them to pushback, connect APU, etc...FS doesnt have macro cyclonic movement (Hurricanes, Tornados, etc) which would provide some interesting sorties...

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Hi Vilk That's OK - of course there are things in Fsim that are not modelled in real life - such as my ability to hit pause while I am flying and go get another beer. :-lol Barry

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>And Barry, if you have never had to use pitot heat, you should>come up to Canada to fly once in a while ;-) Nah - I fly around the Gold Coast in Australia - nightime temperatures plummet to around 15C in the very depths of winter here. Sometimes I even have to put on long pants in winter- but only if I am going outside for a bar-b-que at night. Barry

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Guest WindBeneathMyWings

>The pitot heat has been covered. The boost pump in something>such as a Cessna 172, or Piper Archer is secondary to the>engines mechanical pump. The engine's mechanical pump would>have to fail, in order to really require the boost pump. And>that's the reason you use the boost pump for takeoffs; in case>the mechanical one fails. Boost pumps might also supply>pressurized fuel to a priming system.>>FWIW, airplanes with fuel injection, such as the 172SP, use>boost pumps with a higher pressure rating, than those with>carbed engines, but that's another classroom lesson.>>Priming systems are not a requirement to start. Most small>aircraft engines will start one way or another without it.>It's all going to vary with temperature, use of pre-heating,>etc.>>As to carb heat, it's only going to matter if ice does>actually form. I've known many pilots who have never needed to>use it. I haven't either. And last year, we flew a lot of>winter mountain flights, where the outside temp was -6 F, but>sunny skies. Some have used partial carb heat if they have a>carb inlet temp. gauge, but as a general rule, it's left off,>unless ice is evident.>>L.Adamson Hello, Wow that is wild... I remember back in the day about 12 yrs ago when I was flying my flight Instructor always insisted on turning on the Carb Heat when on the descent to land no matter what the weather... Happy Landings, Josh

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I can think of lots of things that are not modelled...or at least need to be closer...Here is a subtle one I haven't seen mentioned that should be easy to fix in the next version of fs-when you tune in Atis in the real world it starts not like FS-automatically at the beginning-but where ever in the repeating tape sequence it happens to be....a small one I haven't ever seen mentioned... :-)http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpg

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Guest Adverse Yawn

One of my many gripes is the way the pitot freezes. It is possible that in real life it will freeze the pressure into the tube so the airspeed gets stuck at cruise speed. In the meantime, because of unnoticed wing ice you are approaching the stall. In FS the speed just drops to zero, obvious and almost worthless because of it IMHO.Also, the pitot freezes even when you are not in cloud. Not the way it happens. No visible moisture, no ice (except for hoar frost, again not modelled).

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Wow that is wild... I remember back in>the day about 12 yrs ago when I was flying my flight>Instructor always insisted on turning on the Carb Heat when on>the descent to land no matter what the weather...>Do a search on "carb heat", and you'll see as many opinions as what causes lift. :)For instance, take a Piper with a Lycoming, which has the carb mounted to the oil sump, which pre-heats the air a bit, and compare to an older Cessna with a Continental that doesn't pre-heat.That's why the POH for the Cessna say's carb heat on the approach, and the Piper POH says "if required". Piper even warns, that sometimes it's not a good thing, due to possbile pre-dentination in the cylinders.Since I was a fan of Pipers during training, and lived in a high altitude mountainous area, where the risk of leaving carb heat on in a Lycoming Piper during a go-around could cause a needed power loss..... I don't use carb heat for landing.......period, unless the POH says too!However, many instructors and pilots who grew up with older Cessna's, still insist on carb heat for "any landing" sequence with a carbed aircraft, even if they don't know why...L.Adamsonedit: an yes, in the older Cessna's, carb heat is "precautionary", and you DO pull it, as part of the landing check list. The newer Cessna has a fuel injected engine with no carb. And then of course, even with the Pipers, we pull carb heat on and off, with the takeoff checklist to make sure it's functional.

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Its good to know that a good panel programmer is in charge of properstartup procedures. I used to have the 'Fly!' sim and I enjoyed theway you had to flip the right switches in the right order and pay attentionto mixture and cabin pressure.I for one have discovered that I'm looking for more realism but not toomuch realism. I'm counting on FSX to have better landclass and mesh.I think active sky will still be a needed component for some time.

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