pmanhart

Not Again - DLC Simulator

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It's a pretty common model recently and one that several sims are employing to some degree (Aerofly, il2, DCS etc.). Sure, we all want our sims completed as soon as possible but the devs need to build and test the dlc infrastructure alongside the main sim as well as build and grow a market for it, not to mention start showing some ROI as quickly as possible.

Sure, vote with your wallet if you feel that strongly about it but it does seem a little like cutting off your nose to spite your face, and reversing a positive review of the sim because you object to the internal workflow allocations of the development team just doesn't make sense.

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I will say that if something that SHOULD be a core part of a truly complete flight sim is offered only as DLC then would be inclined to be in agreement with the OP.

Weather injection is a prime example. FSW does have a selection of "canned" weather themes that give a nice variety of conditions with the new True Sky clouds, and though it is currently possible to manually adjust temperatures, winds, clouds and precip, those settings are only applied globally. The ability to inject real time / real world weather is, IMO, an essential part of a true flight simulator. I would certainly not be pleased if core real world weather was only available as a DLC option - especialy since it is a standard part of FSX, P3D and X-Plane.

But once the core r/w weather is in place, I would fully expect that advanced weather injection would then be offered by vendors like HiFi, Rex, Opus etc, just as is the case in the "Big Three" flight sims. I would  have no problem with THAT being offered as DLC - either by DTG via Steam, or directly by existing vendors.

Since DLC (i.e. "Add Ons) is going to be part of the finished product, I do think that the basic DLC infrastructure has to be tested as part of the overall development process.

 

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1 hour ago, JRBarrett said:

The ability to inject real time / real world weather is, IMO, an essential part of a true flight simulator. I would certainly not be pleased if core real world weather was only available as a DLC option - especialy since it is a standard part of FSX, P3D and X-Plane.

 

It is not possible to inject real world weather into P3D without using an addon.

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1 minute ago, Rimshot said:

It is not possible to inject real world weather into P3D without using an addon.

I never even noticed that the r/w weather option was not present in P3D , since I have always used Active Sky.

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The way it should've been done a long time ago 

i like the idea of having DTG looking at how a new addon reacts with FSW and is able to make corrections . By the time they put a SDK together it should be well packed .... I had worked with other software developers not SIM related and they sometimes took 1 1/2 years to deliver a final product. The idea of releasing a half done kit and charging for every update its not cool at all .... 

How do i know this ??? Ask my credit card about P3D she would tell you ...

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On 9/16/2017 at 6:48 AM, JRBarrett said:

I would certainly not be pleased if core real world weather was only available as a DLC option - especialy since it is a standard part of FSX, P3D and X-Plane

It's true that real world weather is, or was a part of the three sims you mentioned.

 However, none of them sold for $24.99, or less.  Dovetail is going to need to DLC some of the 'standard' features to make up for the discounted price.  

 

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4 hours ago, airernie said:

It's true that real world weather is, or was a part of the three sims you mentioned.

 

As I said earlier in this thread, it is not true. P3D does not offer real world weather out of the box...

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21 minutes ago, Rimshot said:

As I said earlier in this thread, it is not true. P3D does not offer real world weather out of the box...

Yup, and if you get Active Sky and the accompanying cloud set, that is a not inconsiderable additional cost, which you pretty much do need to do as the default weather and clouds in P3D is awful.

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4 hours ago, airernie said:

However, none of them sold for $24.99, or less.  Dovetail is going to need to DLC some of the 'standard' features to make up for the discounted price.

Remember that DTG said that the current price is for the early adopters and will likely go up when the sim reaches release standard. I would be very disappointed if some level of live weather isn't eventually added.

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7 hours ago, airernie said:

It's true that real world weather is, or was a part of the three sims you mentioned.

 However, none of them sold for $24.99, or less.  Dovetail is going to need to DLC some of the 'standard' features to make up for the discounted price.  

 

I'm not sure though if $24.99 Is going to be the final price. I believe it is currently offered cheaply under the early access program with the understanding that being a work in progress, all features are not yet complete. (Though more are being added all the time). 

I suspect that once it is declared to be in final release form, that the price will go up. I suspect it will be closer to the price of the current FSX-SE. Time will tell.

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9 minutes ago, JRBarrett said:

I'm not sure though if $24.99 Is going to be the final price. I believe it is currently offered cheaply under the early access program with the understanding that being a work in progress, all features are not yet complete. (Though more are being added all the time). 

I suspect that once it is declared to be in final release form, that the price will go up. I suspect it will be closer to the price of the current FSX-SE. Time will tell.

Yes, all the early-access titles on Steam when left that state raised their prices. I would bet it will cost U$60.00 when fully released. 

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If FSW offers live weather as part of the base product, they will be offering much more than P3D out of the box. Even if XPlane has live weather, the visuals are bad.

I hope Dovetail adds live weather, improves performance as much as possible and fixes as many bugs as possible and then releases. Third parties will add the rest.

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Hi, guys! I really enjoy playing Flight sim world!! FSW looks so much better than the 11 year old FSX!!! But please keep in mind that FSW is still in early access, and the FSW is getting better and better!!

 

       Cheers,

  Vincent majerowicz 

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On 9/15/2017 at 0:39 AM, pmanhart said:

I really wanted to believe that FSW was not going to be another Train Simulator. I did, until today.

If FSW is still in Early Access, that means it's not complete. If it's not complete, you would generally have the entire development team working to finish the development process. If you are producing and selling DLC, then you are no longer in the Early Access stage. No, I will not accept some excuse about developing DLC alongside the title, the title is not complete. No, I will not support this terrible business model, and no, I will no longer support FSW or Dovetail Games.

My positive review on Steam has been edited and changed to a Not Recommended along with an exact explanation why.

No, just no.

I really hate that they are making you purchase the DLC ... I am glad they are not forcing me to buy it - lucky I guess!

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Well, as you say, nobody is forcing anyone to purchase DLC. Seems they can't win with some people though, first we had people saying no TPDs would be interested in it, now they're complaining about the fact that you can get TPD stuff for it lol.

Flight simmers eh? They're never happy. :biggrin:

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On 9/21/2017 at 9:12 PM, airernie said:

It's true that real world weather is, or was a part of the three sims you mentioned.

 However, none of them sold for $24.99, or less.  Dovetail is going to need to DLC some of the 'standard' features to make up for the discounted price.  

 

Huh? Standard features?! The last sim that had a built in weather engine was FSX before the Jeppesen servers went offline. If FSW did it would be a first in a while. Let's see what they do for the price. Considering they have done business with REX and HiFi we will see if they choose them or an in house solution. 

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Cable TV "I want all-a-cart!"

Flight sims "I want it all in 1 expensive box!"

Sometimes you just cant win.  I dont remember people complaining when MSFS has only 1 aircraft and 1 airport for $50 ;)  

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1 hour ago, Gibbage said:

Cable TV "I want all-a-cart!"

Flight sims "I want it all in 1 expensive box!"

Sometimes you just cant win.  I dont remember people complaining when MSFS has only 1 aircraft and 1 airport for $50 ;)  

Unfortunately that's because it's DTG, no matter how hard they work, the haters will complain. I know the simulator isn't fully featured yet, but isn't a complete mess, still people keeps complaining a lot.

It's really good to see you guys (developers) joining the party, I really want FSW to succeed. 

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On 15/09/2017 at 5:39 AM, pmanhart said:

I really wanted to believe that FSW was not going to be another Train Simulator. I did, until today.

If FSW is still in Early Access, that means it's not complete. If it's not complete, you would generally have the entire development team working to finish the development process. If you are producing and selling DLC, then you are no longer in the Early Access stage. No, I will not accept some excuse about developing DLC alongside the title, the title is not complete. No, I will not support this terrible business model, and no, I will no longer support FSW or Dovetail Games.

My positive review on Steam has been edited and changed to a Not Recommended along with an exact explanation why.

No, just no.

So you don't like it because Dovetail have allowed DLC before going live with there product. Dovetail are damned if they do and damned if they don't. I don't agree with what you are saying but I respect an opinion so it's fine. For me it's about the quality and bringing something new to the table which Dovetail are accomplishing on both accounts.

After reading your post over and over I'm still not exactly sure why you are upset. It sounds like you've got wrapped up in what some people have said about Train Simulator DLC - you do know the internet can be a toxic community. A lot of people get a lot of joy from Train Simulator as well and the quality of TSW is undeniable.

It would be really good for you to expand on why you think selling DLC is bad during early access and maybe we can then put some points together for a balanced discussion but right now reading the comments here I don't think too many of the community are overly concerned that DLC is being offered before a full release and I would go as far to say that many of the community would encourage it.

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17 hours ago, dtrjones said:

So you don't like it because Dovetail have allowed DLC before going live with there product. Dovetail are damned if they do and damned if they don't. I don't agree with what you are saying but I respect an opinion so it's fine. For me it's about the quality and bringing something new to the table which Dovetail are accomplishing on both accounts.

After reading your post over and over I'm still not exactly sure why you are upset. It sounds like you've got wrapped up in what some people have said about Train Simulator DLC - you do know the internet can be a toxic community. A lot of people get a lot of joy from Train Simulator as well and the quality of TSW is undeniable.

It would be really good for you to expand on why you think selling DLC is bad during early access and maybe we can then put some points together for a balanced discussion but right now reading the comments here I don't think too many of the community are overly concerned that DLC is being offered before a full release and I would go as far to say that many of the community would encourage it.

Precisely. I just don't get why anyone would be up in arms over more things being available. A large number of people got FSW for 'free' by dint of having had Flight School, or if not, then they got it for not a great deal of money, and any DLC is not compulsory, so what has the availability of some DLC cost anyone? Nothing, unless they choose to buy it.

Now if DTG were churning out tons of poor quality add ons concentrating on quantity rather than quality, I could see why one might complain, but DTG have literally only done one DLC thing themselves - Epic Approaches - and that was probably more a case of having something of that ilk to be able to test with the GUI as much as anything. Sure, Epic Approaches was not show stopping 'must have' content, but it's alright and wasn't expensive, and nobody was forcing us to buy it anyway.

As far as I'm aware, all the other DLC has been by third parties, and nobody is forcing us to buy that either although it has, in all cases, certainly been of a very high quality. This model is absolutely consistent with what DTG said was going to be the case right from before FSW was even available, i.e. they would leave the specialised add-ons to the specialists, and concentrate mainly on developing the platform, and that is exactly what they have done with FSW.

And as far as their train sim stuff goes, I think that's great, and all the same things apply where that is concerned too.

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Hi, guys! I really enjoy playing Dovetail flight sim world!! Dovetail flight sim world is way better than the 11 year old FSX which was released on October 17th of 2006!! Keep up the excellent work Dovetail!!

                       Cheers,

                Vincent Majerowicz

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On 9/15/2017 at 3:49 AM, AOB said:

Seriously I remember an add on for a version of Microsft Flight Sim that let users select paint jobs for their Cessna's. Something similar to that would be nice for FSW. But not too expensive please.

You mean, like all the included liveries in the base package?

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