pmanhart

Not Again - DLC Simulator

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I really wanted to believe that FSW was not going to be another Train Simulator. I did, until today.

If FSW is still in Early Access, that means it's not complete. If it's not complete, you would generally have the entire development team working to finish the development process. If you are producing and selling DLC, then you are no longer in the Early Access stage. No, I will not accept some excuse about developing DLC alongside the title, the title is not complete. No, I will not support this terrible business model, and no, I will no longer support FSW or Dovetail Games.

My positive review on Steam has been edited and changed to a Not Recommended along with an exact explanation why.

No, just no.

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1 hour ago, pmanhart said:

I really wanted to believe that FSW was not going to be another Train Simulator. I did, until today.

If FSW is still in Early Access, that means it's not complete. If it's not complete, you would generally have the entire development team working to finish the development process. If you are producing and selling DLC, then you are no longer in the Early Access stage. No, I will not accept some excuse about developing DLC alongside the title, the title is not complete. No, I will not support this terrible business model, and no, I will no longer support FSW or Dovetail Games.

My positive review on Steam has been edited and changed to a Not Recommended along with an exact explanation why.

No, just no.

Did you rant when Aerofly did it? And their early access has barely departed from where it started. Relax and don't forget that no one is making you buy anything you don't want to, just like any other flight sim addon. I intent to buy what I want and enjoy the slew of updates, especially since I got the sim for $15.

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OK, well, er...thanks for letting us know, and erm, while rain drops are hitting my windscreen under TrueSky's beautifully shaded clouds at dusk I'll try to enjoy the experience and not be haunted by thoughts of "this is beautiful but ever since pmanhart said he will no longer support the developer's business model the sim just isn't the same".

I only hope my simming life can survive this onslaught of indignation.

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Yeah, you are truly right, we should all move to Prepar3d, a sim with no DLCs and is right now completely functional... Oh wait...

Jokes aside, I don't see the point creating a thread to say you are leaving. I'm sorry to read that, but it makes no difference to Dovetail. And the sad thing is we don't have an excelent sim to go to out there(p3d has it's issues, x-plane too). I will stick with DTG as long I feel they have something to me. 

Just to be clear, I don't like this missions package, but that's just me, I saw some people that really liked. I would prefer if DTG was using all it's very limited resources building the core sim, but I cannot say how they have to use their resources. 

 

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3 hours ago, pmanhart said:

If it's not complete, you would generally have the entire development team working to finish the development process.

First of all, we do not know if these missions are made in-house.
But Dovetail has previously told us that they have an employee who is working on the development of the Pro Mission Editor. This person can not work with, for example, a weather generator. He will lack the necessary knowledge. In other words, it will not affect the development of the core engine (we can not expect the receptionist working with ATC etc.).

During the further development of the Pro Mission Editor, it may be useful to make specific examples of how powerful this Editor is (It's a good test method). Both to inspire "hobby builders", and not least because more and more customers are asking for more Missions. Yes, a large number of customers like Missions. I do not see the problem. :smile:

Edit:

Here is a comment from a customer at Steam:

Quote

Just completed all missions, they were fun to play through. It's got a bit silent in the workshop, so I really appreciated some new tasks. The missions offer a nice variety of seasons, scenery and weather and show what FSW is already capable of. Looking forward to see further mission packs in the future and hope for longer missions - real voices are much better to immerse into the sim than the text-to-speech system.

 

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We appreciate the feedback, since we're a small team our developers each have a specialization. So the team work in the area that most suits them, Epic Approaches after all went out alongside Update 12 which hit a number of long-term pain points (welcome back force feedback). We're still committed to developing the core sim, working with 3rd party partners and developing alongside the community. We're just making sure that everyone is contributing as much as they possibly can (and not breaking things for anyone else). 

tl;dr This is the reason I don't program ^_^ 

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There are 7 liveries for the A350 at $10 each at the store for one of the other sims. And thats just a livery. And they are still rolling out a rc occasionally. :huh:

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Seriously I remember an add on for a version of Microsft Flight Sim that let users select paint jobs for their Cessna's. Something similar to that would be nice for FSW. But not too expensive please.

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3 hours ago, scotchegg said:

OK, well, er...thanks for letting us know, and erm, while rain drops are hitting my windscreen under TrueSky's beautifully shaded clouds at dusk I'll try to enjoy the experience and not be haunted by thoughts of "this is beautiful but ever since pmanhart said he will no longer support the developer's business model the sim just isn't the same".

I only hope my simming life can survive this onslaught of indignation.

You made me splatter my screen with coffee!  LOLOLOLOLOLOL!

+1:laugh:

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It's his opinion, he's entitled to it, if he don't like it no big deal, if you like it great, that's your opinion, go have fun with it.

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P3D and Xplane are constantly being updated and improved so one could say that they are in early access :)

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6 hours ago, pmanhart said:

I really wanted to believe that FSW was not going to be another Train Simulator. I did, until today.

If FSW is still in Early Access, that means it's not complete. If it's not complete, you would generally have the entire development team working to finish the development process. If you are producing and selling DLC, then you are no longer in the Early Access stage. No, I will not accept some excuse about developing DLC alongside the title, the title is not complete. No, I will not support this terrible business model, and no, I will no longer support FSW or Dovetail Games.

My positive review on Steam has been edited and changed to a Not Recommended along with an exact explanation why.

No, just no.

Well, part of the "development process" is insuring that 3rd party content can be created and successfully installed into the sim. That has to be tested at some point, and now is as good a time as any. "DLC" has to be a part of FSW sooner or later - unless you are content to restrict yourself to only the few default aircraft forever and ever.

DTG did not "create" this first DLC - Just Flight did. (And I believe it can be purchased directly from them in addition to getting it through Steam).

Nobody is forcing you to buy this product.

The Arrow is an excellent addition that works well in FSW at its current state of development, so why not? 

I paid $200 for P3D, and have spent almost $2000 above and beyond that on "DLC", for aircraft, scenery enhancements and utilities to get the P3D ecosystem the way I want it to be. Compared to that, my current investment in FSW is minuscule.

FSW may be a work in progress, but if (for example) HiFi released an FSW version of Active Sky today that brought full real world weather to the sim, and took full advantage of the new True Sky clouds, I'd buy that DLC in a heartbeat, and thank them for it.

Based on your post, I presume you would be so outraged by such a move that you would flatten your flight sim computer with a bulldozer in protest?

 

 

 

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Patience, patience, patience............................. I think you have to give FSW a chance and see where it goes. The price of admission is very reasonable and it has had frequent updates. I am looking forward to more complex aircraft - B737, B767, B787, A320, etc. If possible a Gulfstream 550 or 650 would be great.

Anyway, good luck to Dovetail Games FSW.

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As long as they keep making fixes/improving/optimizing the platform, a DLC here and there is ok. lets not forget they need to have some  revenue to keep going. 

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Nobody has this....only FSW...good enough reason on its own to fly it...

20170915062912_1.jpg

20170915071338_1.jpg

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I'm referencing the FSW Mission Pack, not a third party aircraft from Just Flight.

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It`s the DTG and steam thing again, and yet XPlane and steam are not an issue or Aero FLY2. 

And we all know that P3D comes with all the aircraft you need don't need addon scenery or aircraft.

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7 hours ago, DTG_Cryss said:

We appreciate the feedback, since we're a small team our developers each have a specialization. So the team work in the area that most suits them, Epic Approaches after all went out alongside Update 12 which hit a number of long-term pain points (welcome back force feedback). We're still committed to developing the core sim, working with 3rd party partners and developing alongside the community. We're just making sure that everyone is contributing as much as they possibly can (and not breaking things for anyone else). 

tl;dr This is the reason I don't program ^_^ 

The more "quality" dlc, the better.

Releasing these addons during the early access period 1) shows the expansion potential 2) shows the early adopters for 3rd party support, and 3) exposes any compatibility issues that can be addressed "before" the final release.

Again, DTG seems to be on the right track here and I am all for them releasing dlc pre-release to "pad their pockets" given that I was able to buy FS for $15 and then get FSW for free.

I mean let's face it, when will DTG break even...after the MS license, the AccuFeel license, the Orbyx license, the Truesky license etc.?

What is truly sad here...is that the DEV had to explain their actions when they have already shown a commitment to taking the core sim to the next level. @DTG_Cryss should have 100 rep points for even bothering to comment on "business as usual".

Ok...now get back to enjoying FSW everyone, DTG "still" seems to have their eye on ball.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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You can buy DLC content for AEROFLY FS2 on steam and it`s been in early access since may 2016,

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1 hour ago, rjfry said:

You can buy DLC content for AEROFLY FS2 on steam and it`s been in early access since may 2016,

I´m pretty sure, I don´t know why, the reason is FSW is a DTG product. Every new thing they do, someone is complaining about it. 

Like I said, I´m not buying it, at least not now, because I don´t like those kind of missions. The thing is, I know some people like it and DTG is aiming those, not me.

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I get where you are coming from, @pmanhart. I'm not surprised by the offering of DLC, even at this early stage. I don't have a problem with it with a few caveats. I am holding out hope that key features like real world weather will be included in the core product offering and not as DLC. If that ends up being DLC, It will be hard to stick with FSW. TrueSky is definitely a plus, but honestly at this stage, the performance of the other ESP based offering is a more compelling advantage for me personally.

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6 hours ago, snglecoil said:

I get where you are coming from, @pmanhart. I'm not surprised by the offering of DLC, even at this early stage. I don't have a problem with it with a few caveats. I am holding out hope that key features like real world weather will be included in the core product offering and not as DLC. If that ends up being DLC, It will be hard to stick with FSW. TrueSky is definitely a plus, but honestly at this stage, the performance of the other ESP based offering is a more compelling advantage for me personally.

 

I thoroughly enjoyed all the time I've put into FSW so far, but I decided a long time ago not to support Early Access (beta) titles that proceed to release DLC or expansion packs before the main title is complete. Third party addons is fine with me (they aren't employed by DTG), but employing someone to produce DLC instead of finishing the main title leaves a sour taste in my mouth. I don't know how so many people thought I was talking about something other than DTG produced DLC.

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26 minutes ago, pmanhart said:

 

I thoroughly enjoyed all the time I've put into FSW so far, but I decided a long time ago not to support Early Access (beta) titles that proceed to release DLC or expansion packs before the main title is complete. Third party addons is fine with me (they aren't employed by DTG), but employing someone to produce DLC instead of finishing the main title leaves a sour taste in my mouth. I don't know how so many people thought I was talking about something other than DTG produced DLC.

Sorry but I still don't understand why this would bother you. I don't think it's accurate to assume that just because someone in DTG is producing add-on content, that doing so is necessarily slowing down or delaying the overall development process.

It would be a different matter if purchasing specific DLC was required just to have basic functionality in a product still under development, but I don't think that is the case here. "Missions" aren't my cup of tea, and I would not purchase that kind of DLC even if FSW was fully complete, but I imagine that some people would want that sort of thing. Unless you personally are being forced to buy something you have no interest in, why would you care?

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