roodey

Current build, update or new one?

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Hello to all, 

First of all, i know this question gets asked a lot... My current build is:

Cooler Master CM 690 III, Intel Core i7 4790K 4.0 GHz overclocked to max 4,7 ghz, Cooler Master Hyper 412S, MSI Z97-G45 Gaming, Crucial Ballistix Tactical 16GB DDR3-1866, Nvidia GTX 970 4GB, SSD Crucial MX100 256GB, 1000 GB 2nd hard disk, 1000W Cooler Master V1000 Series. 

I have used p3d v3 with a lot of addons like pmdg 737 + FS2crew, gsx, ftx global, frx vector, rex 4 + soft clouds and asn. It runs, but not that smooth as i would like. Now i want to uodate to p3d v4, a'd wonder if a new PC would be a good choice. The other option is upgrading the gpu, but i do not know if it will improve a lot. 

What are your thoughts? 

 

Tnx!! 

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Upgrade the GPU - a 1080TI will give you noticeable improvement in V4.

The rest of your system is just fine.

 

Vic

 

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33 minutes ago, vgbaron said:

Upgrade the GPU - a 1080TI will give you noticeable improvement in V4.

The rest of your system is just fine.

 

Vic

 

OK, tnx for the quick response! Even with the load of addons , it's no problem? 

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If you've got that CPU at 4.7 it's swamping the 970. You should be good to go with just a GPU upgrade. Putting P3D on the SSD will help, if it's not there already.

 

Vic

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3 hours ago, vgbaron said:

Upgrade the GPU - a 1080TI will give you noticeable improvement in V4.

The rest of your system is just fine.

1

Vic,

given that the 1080ti is top of the line (and top of the wallet crushers for that matter too) what would be your minimum recommendation for a gpu?  I am aware that a 1080 allows sliders to the right and that impressive autogen coverage but would a 6GB card eg. 1060/1070 give satisfactory results as well?

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Yes, as long as it's 6gb, the 1060/1070 would be a good fit. IMHO, the difference between a 1070 and a 1080 is not worth the $$ difference in cost but the difference between the 1080 and the 1080ti is worth it. So if your budget doesn't permit a TI, I'd say the 1070 would be  the one to get.

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And which 1080 ti is the best? I read about the asus rog, but dont know if it's the best out there

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I also have an i7 4790k at 4.7

Ssd etc

2 titans sc first edition in sli

Cards get anhialiated 

So much money down the drain

Cant run 4ssaa with 4k and dL on

Only 8xmsaa DL off

Gonna wait and get volta 

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13 hours ago, lodestar said:

My favorite stays MSI Gaming X for all versions of Nvidia cards. You can check the review, this one is what i want to buy http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/msi-gtx-1080-ti-gaming-x-review,1.html

Couldn't agree more and I've had other brands in the past such as ASUS but since I got my first MSI card chances are slim I'll go anywhere else again. Did hear lots of good stuff about EVGA though so that would be the only option for me other than MSI.

I've been extremely happy with my MSI 980 Ti Gaming G6 card for a bit more than two years and only days ago I replaced it with the MSI 1080 Ti Gaming X and again I couldn't be more happy!

This is from the linked article and it summarizes my thoughts very well.

"The MSI GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Gaming X is ticking all the right boxes, yet again."

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Rumors said that the new Volta coming next spring will be a monster and will melt the 1080 series. But that would mean to wait some further months, and surely the MSI GTX 1080TI is also a beast.

I am on a GTX 980TI and will switch to 1180TI next year as I am not sure whether I would see much more benefit by jumping now  to the 1080TI.

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What I noticed going from a 980Ti to a 1080Ti is how DL for instance don't cause the same FPS drop anymore. In the same way I can enable dynamic reflections and still have acceptable performance.

Other than that I think everything looks more crisp and sharp with the 1080Ti. That however might be me wanting it to be like that 😉

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DL drops my fps with the Palit Super Jetstream 980TI only with SSAA. No big impact with 8 x MSAA, Anyway, the MSI GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Gaming X is now in the basket for order :laugh: I will let you know how it compares. If the differences are marginal it has to go back...

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1 hour ago, Cargostorm said:

DL drops my fps with the Palit Super Jetstream 980TI only with SSAA. No big impact with 8 x MSAA, Anyway, the MSI GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Gaming X is now in the basket for order :laugh: I will let you know how it compares. If the differences are marginal it has to go back...

Like always when comparing performance in FS your mileage may vary depending on lots of things but in my case I saw how the FPS dropped about 6-8 FPS when I switched all the external lights on in the NGX. This was when using my 980 Ti.

When I later did the exact same test using the 1080 Ti the FPS wasn't affected at all so that was what made me decide to keep the card. This and how everything just looks and feels really, really good as mentioned above be it the placebo effect or not.

I also like to see how my GPU utilization isn't stuck at 100% most of the time like it was with my 980 Ti. Now with the 1080 Ti it normally is somewhere between 50-90 most of the time depending on the current scene.

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... the same points that you mentioned are also important for me, especially performance with DL on and SSAA as well as fps maintenance in heavy weather. I have been very careful with the sliders and never used dynamic reflections. It might now be the time to try these features...

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On 9 October 2017 at 1:48 AM, vgbaron said:

IMHO, the difference between a 1070 and a 1080 is not worth the $$ difference in cost but the difference between the 1080 and the 1080ti is worth it.

When you say that the difference between the 1070 and 1080 isn't worth the extra money, do you mean just for P3D? If not, I'd have to disagree. If you look at this review for my card: http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/msi_geforce_gtx_1080_gaming_x_plus_8g_review,12.html you'll see that the 1080 is usually about 25% (sometimes over 30%) faster than the 1070, particularly at QHD and UHD resolutions. The difference between the 1080 and the 1080 Ti is often a lot less than that. Here in the UK, difference in cost between the 1070 and the 1080 is about 25-30% whereas the difference between the 1080 and the 1080Ti is approximately 40-50%. Based on this, the 1080 offers better bang for your buck than the Ti.

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22 minutes ago, vortex681 said:

When you say that the difference between the 1070 and 1080 isn't worth the extra money, do you mean just for P3D?

This is the P3D forum, is it not? Yes, the OP was asking about updating for P3D - I stand by my statement - the 1070 is the best bang for the buck.

 

Vic

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On 10 October 2017 at 7:05 PM, vgbaron said:

This is the P3D forum, is it not? Yes, the OP was asking about updating for P3D - I stand by my statement - the 1070 is the best bang for the buck.

I can only assume that you've tested all of these GPUs side by side in the same system to arrive at your opinion. I haven't, which is why I've looked at a number of different comparative reviews to arrive at my opinion. You're earlier statement that "the difference between a 1070 and a 1080 is not worth the $$ difference in cost but the difference between the 1080 and the 1080ti is worth it" is just not supported by these reviews.

Many people don't use their PCs exclusively for P3D and for them the 1080, whilst obviously more expensive than the 1070, is definitely worth the extra cost if you can afford it. The 1080 Ti is undoubtedly the best overall, but the increase in performance over the 1080 simply doesn't justify the increase in price (40-50%) - it's just not that much better.

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It is not always everything about the benchmarks. None of the today used benchmarks give a proper picture comparable to what you will see in P3D. But more important:

- both the 1070 and the 1080 have 8GB of video memory, addressed 256bit.

- both the 1070 and the 1080 use the same chip (GP104).

- the 1080 has about 33% more Shaders and TMUs.

And that's basically it. Slight differences in GPU and VRAM clock speeds which you can easily adjust yourself.

In contrast to this basically very identical cards, the 1080Ti offers the bigger chip (GP102), an additional 37% of videomemory with a considerably higher bandwith (384bit vs 256bit) and solid 40% more Shaders and TMUs. Put the 50% more ROPs the 1080Ti offers compared to the 1080 on top and I absolutely agree with vgbaron, even if the numbers of the benchmarks might say something different. It seems that all those Shaders, TMUs, ROPs and the bigger memory with a broader bandwith pays off more in P3D as it does in other games...

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12 hours ago, AnkH said:

It is not always everything about the benchmarks.

You're absolutely correct. However, the comparisons are not just using benchmarks, they're doing real-world tests with a large number of different games. Short of comparing every one of the different GPUs in exactly the same system with an identical installation of P3D, the review sites are the only reasonable way to compare cards without it just being a best guess. If the 1070 and 1080 are so similar, why do they perform so differently in so many games in an otherwise identical system? Likewise, if the 1080 Ti is so much better, why is this not also reflected in the comparisons? You can't simply look at specs and make an assumption based on that. I have a 1080 and think that it's a great card but I've no idea how much better it is than a 1070 or worse it is than a 1080 Ti because I don't have either of those cards - and that's the only way to really know.

To pick up on another point you raised, if it was as easy as just tweaking the VRAM clock speeds of a 1070 to make it match the performance of a 1080 everybody would do it and no one would be buying 1080s which is clearly not the case.

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big difference from 1080 to 1080TI? How so?

Also I would recommend EVGA for GPU. They are excellent cards, never had any problems with them.

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6 hours ago, vortex681 said:

To pick up on another point you raised, if it was as easy as just tweaking the VRAM clock speeds of a 1070 to make it match the performance of a 1080 everybody would do it and no one would be buying 1080s which is clearly not the case.

That was not what I was writing. I wrote that you can easily match the VRAM clock speeds of the 1070 to those of the 1080. I did not write that this will results in also matching the performance, as you still have less shaders and TMUs with the 1070.

The problem with the gaming tests, I repeat, is, that none of the current games represent what you will see with the ESP based engines from our flightsims. That's a fact, not something I made up. Furthermore, the 1080Ti has so much power, that usually only in 1440p or even only in 4K you can really judge the difference to the 1080 and even then, often limiting factors such as the CPU play a role. You can easily see this in FullHD resolution, where you usually see a plateau in the high-end cards, while the difference gets more obvious in 4K. One of the benchmarks representing the "true" differences, are the 3D Marks, and there the statement about the 1080Ti gets obvious (http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/msi_geforce_gtx_1080_ti_lightning_z_review,28.html) While the 1080Ti is 33% faster than a 1080, the 1080 itself is "only" 25% faster than a 1070. Same goes for example for The Witcher 3 in 4K, where a 1080Ti is 37% faster than a 1080, while the 1080 itself is only 23% faster than the 1070. And so on, in almost every benchmark at 4K, where CPU limits and other limitations play a less prominent role. So much for the benchmarks (side note: benchmark does not equal Benchmark-Software like 3DMark, if you test and compare your FPS in TW3, GTA5 etc, you also do a benchmark...).

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5 hours ago, AnkH said:

The problem with the gaming tests, I repeat, is, that none of the current games represent what you will see with the ESP based engines from our flightsims.

Which is exactly my point from earlier. Unless you can test each card in an identical system with an identical installation of the flight sim, there's no way to say exactly how much better or worse each will be for simming.

5 hours ago, AnkH said:

One of the benchmarks representing the "true" differences, are the 3D Marks, and there the statement about the 1080Ti gets obvious (http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/msi_geforce_gtx_1080_ti_lightning_z_review,28.html) While the 1080Ti is 33% faster than a 1080, the 1080 itself is "only" 25% faster than a 1070.

But in your example, you're comparing an average 1080 to the newest, fastest and most expensive 1080 Ti card on the market. In the UK, that card is retailing for almost 890 UK pounds which is 60% more expensive than the average price of a 1080 here (550 UK pounds)! I have an MSI GeForce GTX 1080 GAMING X PLUS which, although faster than most other 1080s, costs less than the average at about 540 UK pounds. If you compare the 3DMark score for my card (8049, from my previous link) with the MSI GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Lightning Z (10119) in the benchmark you linked, its only 25% lower for a card which costs over 60% less. Is that good bang for your buck? Incidentally, in that benchmark, my card scores 33% better than the 1070 (6059).

We could play with statistics all day and, to a certain extent, it depends on which ones you choose to use. Suffice it to say that we obviously differ in our opinions. However, in my opinion, if you want the ultimate performance then go for the 1080 Ti, if you want the best performance vs price ratio, go for the 1080 (specifically the MSI GeForce GTX 1080 GAMING X PLUS) and if you want the best performance on more of a budget, go for the 1070.

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