Just curious as to how the feelings on this go...

 

Russ

One thing people don't understand is that the current ATC engine limitations also limits external ATC tools as these cannot control AI traffic due to lack of functionality of the ESP engine.

Simbol 

25 minutes ago, simbol said:

One thing people don't understand is that the current ATC engine limitations also limits external ATC tools as these cannot control AI traffic due to lack of functionality of the ESP engine.

Simbol 

Is that "lack of functionality of the ESP engine" inherent because of the weaknesses of the engine itself, or due to changes wrought by subsequent redevelopments?

Kind regards,

Lacking, and until Prepard3D V4 nothing was changed, now they introduced new SDK functionalities (PDK) which might allow people like me to improve it but still there is a lot of things necessary to make it better.

Sim connect has remained almost static, although LM has improved a lot of things with it there are very little new functionalities to Sim connect.

My gut feeling is that Sim connect will be deprecated over time in favour of their new PDK libraries.

Simbol  

1 hour ago, SpiritFlyer said:

Is that "lack of functionality of the ESP engine" inherent because of the weaknesses of the engine itself, or due to changes wrought by subsequent redevelopments?

Kind regards,

Hello Stephen,

IMHO this is actually pretty simple. Generally speaking, the AI logic and the ATC module are only loosely connected. ATC in general is only controlling your own flight, but not the AI planes. Those follow their path under direction of the AI control logic, subject to a generalized set of routing and collision detection rules. ATC is just providing a verbal narration of what they do, and it is doing this only in one special circumstance: if the AI has a flight plan (assigned via BGL or through the SimConnect API). This is the main reason why you are seeing so many strange things done by AI planes - noone is actually controlling them in the sense that "ATC" implies.

External ATC apps for the most part are doing it the same way. They query the AirTrafficState and position of all the AI and play appropriate sound samples.

To change this would imply a general redesign of the platform with regard to the AI logic (which btw is also handling all other vehicles and simobjects) and the ATC system. Or to combine both AI planes and ATC into a single external app.

Best regards

I agree while there has been much talk about opening new functionality to facilitate external addon modules, very little has changed in this from FSX. If connections to controlling the ai pilot or ATC could be opened, an external program containing the AI logic could make things much more versatile/better. As of current from what is available to control very little result is obtained from very extensive testing and programming, as for eg the AI Controller which is quite complicated with a lot of work put in it but in the sim is only able to produce a flimsy not so great result - at least not yet able to surpass the overall in sim AI operation/experience due to the limited control available.

I voted for improvement.

I like the fact it is using natural human voices. I t will be super if it can recognize and direct SIDs and STARS.

Bill

For GA/VFR default ATC is absolutely perfect. For airliners I would use ProATC (currently not installed) because of the procedures and more precise vectoring. But for ease of use and quality of sound I would love to able to use default ATC for everything. There isn't a single ATC addon out there that sounds better (even though the voices obviously aren't local). I bought Ultimate Traffic Live this weekend and it is great hearing all that radio chatter during my GA flights. Sounds very real to me. That's btw something ProATC doesn't do (at least not the last time used it). I would love to see it being improved but I doubt it will ever happen.

ATC 90/60/30 vectoring is due to the possibility of AP latency to avoid slalom. Obviously takes us off the GPS route but in a general way works well without increasing the complexity further at the time of release.

I'm thinking the stock ATC can be augmented without too big an ask. Also consider the many types of plugins available now could come in handy for ATC. Look at languages for example, there are over 50 translations at Bing accessed from within an app with simple scripts. However starting from scratch is a big ask. 

There are several ATC addons already, I use VoxATC, which AFAIK generates and controls its own AI.  with the right navdata in place it beats default ATC out of the park

I'll be very happy if they address & fix the default atc bugs that are still present since fs9.

I am working on a research project, in order to improve all default functionalities.

I am not very familiar with the default SDK/PDK not FSUIPC.

Could someone detail what are the shotfalss in regards to the SDK? What can't be done at the moment ?

 

21 minutes ago, fs1 said:

I am working on a research project, in order to improve all default functionalities.

I am not very familiar with the default SDK/PDK not FSUIPC.

Could someone detail what are the shotfalss in regards to the SDK? What can't be done at the moment ?

 

http://www.prepar3d.com/SDKv4/LearningCenter.php

It is all self learning I am afraid! welcome to our world 

Regards,
Simbol

Thanks @simbol for the link. I know what can be done, but I would like to hear from a customer experience what is missing.

My question is: I guess the AI addons that do a reasonable work put the AI aircrafts on slew and control them, or some type of similar technique. Does this workaround do the job? Or also falls short?

If not, let's say I will be working on the ATC/AI Engine internals. What would you like to see working ? If you could provide me some pointers I am happy to work on narrowing this gap.

thanks