Kyprianos Biris

RealAir Turbine Duke control problems

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Does anyone face a problem where after some time (like 30 minutes) of flying with the RealAir Turbine Duke once autopilot disengages the aircraft enters a crazy roll /dive/climb ?

By having this issue multiple times I have nailed the problem down to the following phenomenon (not the cause).

One of the Aileron/Elevator/Rudder gets in to FULL deflection in the background but autopilot prevents it from applying the forces.

Once I disengage the autopilot the aircraft dives/climbs in to a crazy spiral dive/climb.

The axis that is in full deflection has no affect by the joystick and only via the keypad (i.e. for Aileron only option is Numpad 4 - 6 buttons for left - right roll and 5 to center).

So autopilot disengage, the dive commences, I press 5 to center ailerons and 4 or 6 to level wings while using the joystick to correct again the pitch with the elevator.

While landed on ground I check the control surfaces movement and the joystick disables axis indeed does not move the specific control (i.e. aileron) but the rest (elevator, rudder) do visually move.

I checked P3D failures, but nothing is failed (controls etc.).

I checked FSUIPC joystick calibration and the axises are properly working.

I tried uninstalling, reinstalling.

I tried installing the duke inside P3D and outside P3D.

P3Dv3

Windows10

ASN+ASCA for weather

ChasePlane camera

 

 

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My theory is that something is impacting the SimConnect channel and breaking the connection between the sim and the aircraft. What I would try is to  start the sim with the default scenario and a default aircraft. Then change the aircraft to the Duke and save that as the new default scenario. Always start with that revised default scenario. See if that helps.

 

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Thanks, I do have this set up since day 1 though. I launch P3Dv3 with the default Cub in a remote light scenery location. This is my default start up flight. From there I load all other scenarios.

If it was a simconnect issue would I not have it from the start of the flight or in other applications ?

I do not have any issues in other add on's that use simconnect.

Also the problem occurs after some half+ hour of flying it is not at the start of the session.

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Interesting.  Why only one plane, I wonder.  My first thought would be a corruption of Simconnect used by FSUIPC.  Perhaps you could try using P3D controls as a test instead of FSUIPC.  Also, FSUIPC has an option to send the axis directly to P3D instead of through their calibration.  What other airplanes do you fly?

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1 hour ago, Gregg_Seipp said:

What other airplanes do you fly?

FSLabs Concorde, PMDG 737/747, CaptainSim 727, Majestic Q400, Eaglesoft CitationX and Carenado light GA stuff.

I have never had this issue.

I will try to reinstall over the top FSUIPC. In the past it had fixed some issues I had.

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I am not sure but something like this must have occured to me also, but i cant tell for sure since it was an unattended flight .When i came back it was seconds before crash during the dive....

Following this.

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It may have happened to me as well but I've also had it happen occasionally with others.  My second thought about this case, late last night, was that, perhaps, some command was sent to P3D by some software.  I, also, use FSUIPC and LINDA but I don't use AS4.  Pretty sure I was on autopilot.  Don't think anything else was running.

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I should add that I have seen this same issue but only rarely and only with the RealAir TD.

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This isn't wake turbulence from active sky is it?

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Nope.

Just a control stuck on far end (i.e. Airleron max right) which takes effect after autopilot disengage.

While this happens Elevator from joystick works fine, aileron is unaffected by joystick and only affected by keyboard.

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Failures checked in RealAir config/setup?

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It's not turbulence or Failures. I've tried turning both off. What I posted on Tuesday worked for me. 

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What GNS or GTN are people using when this happens? 

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OK I am continuing the tests, every time in same flight, and I still get the problem.

I am flying on two GTN750 set up.

This is my set up

http://hellasga.com/gallery/kyp/fs/P3D/RealAir-Duke/Screen-Shot-12-31-17-at-08_41-PM

 

This is what I changed this time but it DID NOT solve the problem.

Load always Cold & Dark : DISABLED and I created my own cold and dark start up flight and I used this to start the flight.

I changed from P3D Controllers to disabling them via P3D and enabling FSUIPC direct axis control.

This time I flew away from clouds avoiding getting in contact with them. (In ASN I have Option-->Max Cloud Icing-->100 but never had a problem)

En Route Temps were at -32C / -25F

 

I have nailed it down more accurately as to what happens.

Its the AILERONS which give full deflection to the RIGHT and there is no control of them with joystick.

Only KEYPAD ( 4-5-6 ) can control them once this happens.

You find out only when you turn off Autpilot En route.

 

This is my Flight Plan if you operate the Duke with GTN770 and would like to test the same flight.

LGAV PIKAD L53 PARNA LGKR

FPN/RI:F:LGAV:F:PIKAD.L53.PARNA:F:LGKR and make this a text file with filename LGAV-LGKR.gfp

Move it to P3D\F1TGTN\FPL

I depart direct PIKAD climbing FL240.

Arrival planned for LGKR is VOR W 35 direct KRK from PARNA point.

Some time after ELVAS point while en route at FL240 the problem occurs and you find out only if you disengage autopilot.

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5 minutes ago, Kyprianos Biris said:

I am flying on two GTN750 set up.

Flight1 GTN?  Also, try flying your route in heading mode.

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Another weird phenomenon I experience during this problem and I found out during the closure of the flight once landed (with the help of keypad for the lost ailerons control).

After the problem occurs, when I lower the landing gear the fuel on board is automatically maxed out !

I detect this by the software that tracks my flight for the PIREP that will be sent to the VA I fly for.

Not that is really weird !

P3D fuel display up on landing vs fuel display in my PIREP software.

dmHOHLi.jpg

 

Aircraft status upon engine shut down at apron.

The yoke seen turned right is where it was (visually) stuck after the problem. Using keypad the ailerons would turn but not the yoke. Using joystick would not affect them.

J4InzFw.jpg

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4 hours ago, Kyprianos Biris said:

Another weird phenomenon I experience during this problem and I found out during the closure of the flight once landed (with the help of keypad for the lost ailerons control).

After the problem occurs, when I lower the landing gear the fuel on board is automatically maxed out !

I detect this by the software that tracks my flight for the PIREP that will be sent to the VA I fly for.

Not that is really weird !

P3D fuel display up on landing vs fuel display in my PIREP software.

dmHOHLi.jpg

 

Aircraft status upon engine shut down at apron.

The yoke seen turned right is where it was (visually) stuck after the problem. Using keypad the ailerons would turn but not the yoke. Using joystick would not affect them.

J4InzFw.jpg

Gosh, this is fascinating.  So, did you fly this last flight with heading mode?  My theory was that it was either the GTN (possibly corrupting something or sending the command due to a glitch) or the NAV mode on the autopilot being wonky.  Looking at the fuel in your last picture, fuel looks to be about half load.  Also, your fuel in the ACARS looks to be about the same?...330 on board vs. 777 full load?  Maybe I'm missing something there.

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3 hours ago, Gregg_Seipp said:

So, did you fly this last flight with heading mode?  My theory was that it was either the GTN (possibly corrupting something or sending the command due to a glitch) or the NAV mode on the autopilot being wonky.  Looking at the fuel in your last picture, fuel looks to be about half load.  Also, your fuel in the ACARS looks to be about the same?...330 on board vs. 777 full load?  Maybe I'm missing something there.

No I flew it in NAV mode guided by the GTN750.

 

Ignore my fuel comment. My bad.

I now find out I simply landed overweight and it was not a glitch due to the Ailerons problem.

Just setting up same (arrival) fuel and payload before departure just gives me the same weights.

It was just my bad calculation and ACARS just warns on this. Before departure it does not warn on overweight in regards to MLW since I have not landed yet.

 

t6w78S7.jpg

 

Next flight will be a test with same set up but instead of NAV mode I will use just HDG mode to get there.

Thanks for the follow up.

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10 minutes ago, Kyprianos Biris said:

Next test flight: Heading mode only. No problem. All went OK

Hmmm...a clue? 

So, in NAV mode, sometime after you leave ELVAS, you're still on autopilot...everything seems fine but, if you disengage the autopilot, the airplane leans to the right and you have to use keyboard commands to get it back under control.  Or does it do it while on autopilot?  I do still have my P3D3 set up with the TDuke and Flight1 GTN so I could try to duplicate the exact problem.  I also have the TDuke in P3D4 with the RXP GTN so I could test that as well.

Did you add a SID and/or STAR to this flightplan?

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You describe it correctly.

My next test will be by reconfiguring GTN750 (from F1 Config) to command in HDG HOLD mode and not NAV mode and fly again same route.

Last flight was with autopilot HDG mode using external (FSCommander) command and GTN750 active for waypoint sequencing on map only (GTN configuration was for NAV mode).

For departure (for my tests) after take off after 4.000ft I just turn DCT PIKAD.

For arrivals I load VOR W 35 procedure from KRK VOR and I activate it once inbound KRK.

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No need for GTN changes and more tests.

The problem occurs even on ground at Cold and Dark.

Once I opened the P3D menu from top to change my start up fuel and pressed OK I saw at an instant the Duke's yokes move far right instantly.

The aileron axis was disabled even though Joystick was sending data to FSUIPC so this is a RealAir Duke specific issue.

I changed to another aircraft and the aileron axis was still dead.

Back to the Duke, still dead.

Shutting down and reloading P3D only brings back the aileron axis. :huh:

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2 minutes ago, Kyprianos Biris said:

No need for GTN changes and more tests.

The problem occurs even on ground at Cold and Dark.

Once I opened the P3D menu from top to change my start up fuel and pressed OK I saw at an instant the Duke's yokes move far right instantly.

The aileron axis was disabled even though Joystick was sending data to FSUIPC so this is a RealAir Duke specific issue.

I changed to another aircraft and the aileron axis was still dead.

Back to the Duke, still dead.

Shutting down and reloading P3D only brings back the aileron axis. :huh:

A couple of things:

  • Open your options, go to weather and set the thermal view to "Schematic".  Go outside the airplane and see if you're in a thermal.  It's a weird request but, I've seen this.
  • Probably a better idea, go into FSUIPC and change the axis setting to "Send Direct to Prepar3D". 
  • Also, you do have axis turned off in P3D control settings, correct?

Gregg

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1. OK I changed to schematic for next test flight.

2. This is how I have them, Direct and Calibrated through FSUIPC

3. You mean controllers ? Yes all Disabled and controlled via FSUIPC.

Since my last post I tried another 3 flights. Same route outbound and return.

The problem occurs each time whatever I do.

Sometimes I noted that it occurs when the P3D window is not the windows on Focus i.e. when I open/raise other windows on my extended desktop to see things.

For example this happened and in one case I lost the Duke's POWER lever axis and on another case the rudder axis!

So its not aileron specific but this is where it happens most often.

Then on next flight I tried again and again with (P3D) Window change of focus by opening and manipulating other windows all the time while the Duke was operating in P3D.

Nothing happened in that session (beginning) but the problem of lost ailerons happened again in flight.

It occurs after 30~32 minutes of flying on autopilot at cruise altitude and GTN750 feeding the NAV mode of autopilot.

I tried HDG mode only.

I actually you can "feel" when the problem has occurred by the following. You let the Duke yokes to remain in sight so you can see when they roll or not.

If you gently push joystick on one side the action gets a reaction by the autopilot which counteracts the move the opposite way and so you see the Duke's yokes move (roll) left right.

If the problem has occurred then you do not see this happening since the joystick has no effect and then you know what will happen next time you disengage the autopilot.

The joystick test is just to provoke the move of yokes. They still will not move any more if the problem has occurred anyway its just that autopilot moves are minor so you do not spot this.

If the Duke yokes roll left-right then the problem has not yet occurred.

 

If you are waiting for the problem to occur its easier to handle it (A/P OFF, immediate keypad 5 press to center aileron and immediate keypad 4 press to counteract the right aileron and then 6 to center ailerons again when needed, A/P engage again).

Still though on final approach when you will disengage the A/P you still need to bank left-right with keypad to turn base, line up etc. while using the joysticks for pitch, power and yaw. Totally ruins the simulation.

I still continue the tests in hope of finding a probable cause ...

My spec's:

P3D run in VC view, Windowed mode | PC: i7 3770@4.1 Ghz | NVidia GTX970 4Gb | 8 Gb RAM | Win10 | Prepar3D 3.4.22 | 2048 resolution
2x28'screens at 1920x1080 | Orbx FTX Global Base & Vector, openLC EUR&NAM | AS16+ASCA weather | Chaseplane Camera | vPilot for VATSIM with Mytraffic6 AI

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