Mischung

Will Intel design flaw influence P3D performance?

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Hi!

I just read some things about the revealed Intel design flaw and wondered if it will affect the performance of P3D in a noticeable manner?

As far as I know it is about the caching of memory mapping for applications and the kernel.

In my understanding this should tax programs with a lot of access to kernel functions (hd access, etc.).

Hope we won't get an additional parking brake with the next patchday on Tuesday (estimated) :bengong:

Marc

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P3D is extremely dependent on optimal hardware performance, so it is safe to assume that it will affect computers with "bad" CPUs. Two steps forward with P3D v4, and one back with Intel...

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Nobody forces you to update your Windows 10.

If a Simmer uses a clean dedicated Windows-Installation as i ALWAYS highly recommend for his Flightsim-System there is no need for updates and you can enjoy the full power of your Intel CPU also in the future ;-)

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Most simmers are dependent on an Internet connection so I would stronly advice against not keeping your Windows up to date at all times. You never know who or what will bring malware to your system.

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13 minutes ago, simmerhead said:

P3D is extremely dependent on optimal hardware performance, so it is safe to assume that it will affect computers with "bad" CPUs. Two steps forward with P3D v4, and one back with Intel...

30% sounds a little bit more than just one step back though...

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31 minutes ago, simmerhead said:

P3D is extremely dependent on optimal hardware performance, so it is safe to assume that it will affect computers with "bad" CPUs. Two steps forward with P3D v4, and one back with Intel...

Except that ALL CPUs are bad, including AMD and ARM this is affecting other brands not only Intel and any CPU.

The fix also requires hardware vendor microcode updates to enable the software patches.

So it is not a easy fix either, bad times for anything related to computers.

Simbol 

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33 minutes ago, simmerhead said:

Most simmers are dependent on an Internet connection so I would stronly advice against not keeping your Windows up to date at all times. You never know who or what will bring malware to your system.

For internet surfing, emailing etc. you should have an other OS installation, via Multiboot you can have this on your Flightsim-Hardware. As long as you use your Flightsim-Installation responable you can't even drop the AV software and still let it be online for weather data, IVAO etc.

Since years i use my OS (W7 SP1 for BMS and W10 1609 for P3D) without AV and without Windows Updates flawlessly and during flying they are online the whole time.

The only thing you need is a good Router with an decent firewall which is configured right and your safe from malicous software.

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Just now, JoeFackel said:

The only thing you need is a good Router with an decent firewall which is configured right and your safe from malicous software.

This is a bad advise, any well designed Trojan (which hackers can buy ready to deploy on the dark-web) can bypass in a couple of mili seconds any mid-size corporate router, so it will do this even more easily with any home router device.

The best protection is to close any ZERO-Exploits vulnerability by installing all windows updates on the operating system and having an antivirus.

Best Regards,
Simbol

 

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5 to 30% slowdown of your PC once you download the patch when its released. Good articles for those that want to know whats going on are below. Only way around this will be new chip design in the future. Anything we have now will see a slowdown in performance.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/01/02/intel_cpu_design_flaw/

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/01/04/intel_amd_arm_cpu_vulnerability/

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1 minute ago, B777ER said:

5 to 30% slowdown of your PC once you download the patch when its released. Good articles for those that want to know whats going on are below. Only way around this will be new chip design in the future. Anything we have now will see a slowdown in performance.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/01/02/intel_cpu_design_flaw/

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/01/04/intel_amd_arm_cpu_vulnerability/

Correct, and this article https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/list-of-meltdown-and-spectre-vulnerability-advisories-patches-and-updates/ will give you even a better overview of the difficult tasks ahead to mitigate this problem.

Regards,
Simbol

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4 minutes ago, simbol said:

Correct, and this article https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/list-of-meltdown-and-spectre-vulnerability-advisories-patches-and-updates/ will give you even a better overview of the difficult tasks ahead to mitigate this problem.

Regards,
Simbol

I love this part of the Intel press release about the performance impact, "Contrary to some reports, any performance impacts are workload-dependent, and, for the average computer user, should not be significant and will be mitigated over time."

See the buzz words there folks? Workload dependent and average computer user is buzz phrases that apply to people using their computers for internet and using MS office apps. This statement I can assure you does not apply to a application like P3D and all the background processes we have running with it. As sure as I am sitting here, this will impact us greatly. 

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8 minutes ago, simbol said:

This is a bad advise, any well designed Trojan (which hackers can buy ready to deploy on the dark-web) can bypass in a couple of mili seconds any mid-size corporate router, so it will do this even more easily with any home router device.

That may apply for real hacker targets like corporations etc. but not for Joe Average's Flightsim-Installation (!) running a few hours per weak. There is a higher risk to get your home PC destroyed by an lightning than being target by an hacker. They go for valueable targets.

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If this is true then all users will have to get refunds for the bad arhitecture... Some of us paid a lot to get the hardware they own. A 30% slowdown is unimaginable...

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3 minutes ago, JoeFackel said:

That may apply for real hacker targets like corporations etc. but not for Joe Average's Flightsim-Installation (!) running a few hours per weak. There is a higher risk to get your home PC destroyed by an lightning than being target by an hacker. They go for valueable targets.

This is an extremely incorrect perspective. Malware distributors specifically target home users en masse with very sophisticated scanning tools on whole IP subnets to find vulnerable machines to use in botnets. Firewalls are good but most scans/attacks begin with HTTP/HTTPS connections made from the home computer.

If your computer is connected to the internet and you are making outbound connections with a browser, it is irresponsible to avoid security updates to the operating system.

 

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@JoeFackelC'mon Joe. This is "whishfull" thinking. If you are online then you are open to any kind of threat. We payed a decent amount of money for HW and SW which should be as safe as is can be and offer the advertised functionality acc to the spec.

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What I have not yet understood is the following. I bought my 7700K a year ago.

1) When this 30% decrease happened? It was a -30% since the time I installed it due to hardware? Or the problem appeared later by Win10 updates?

2) Will the upcoming patch regain the lost performance? In what cost?

3) If I move to Win7, will I see better performance?

There should be some clear answers to these questions. Someone should know.

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P3D will just have to change to rely more on GPU like other modern games.

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1 hour ago, JoeFackel said:

Nobody forces you to update your Windows 10.

If a Simmer uses a clean dedicated Windows-Installation as i ALWAYS highly recommend for his Flightsim-System there is no need for updates and you can enjoy the full power of your Intel CPU also in the future ;-)

Not true. In W10 Home you cannot reject any important automated update.

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9 minutes ago, Nemo said:

Not true. In W10 Home you cannot reject any important automated update.

There are several tools (i recommend "ShutUP10" from O&O) where you can easily switch off windows updates, also on W10 Home.

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10 minutes ago, MarkSC said:

Although Nvidia is not 100% certain yet that GPUs are unaffected

If GPUs have the same issue than we should just pack our bags and go. The show is over.

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20 minutes ago, Daedalus said:

What I have not yet understood is the following. I bought my 7700K a year ago.

1) When this 30% decrease happened? It was a -30% since the time I installed it due to hardware? Or the problem appeared later by Win10 updates?

2) Will the upcoming patch regain the lost performance? In what cost?

3) If I move to Win7, will I see better performance?

There should be some clear answers to these questions. Someone should know.

Patch has not been released to the public yet. I would say there would be multiple patches at this point. The up to 30% decrease will be a result of the patche(s).

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Is the loss of performance only happens AFTER the patch is out? So if we choose to live with the vulnerability, no performance problems?

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46 minutes ago, JoeFackel said:

That may apply for real hacker targets like corporations etc. but not for Joe Average's Flightsim-Installation (!) running a few hours per weak. There is a higher risk to get your home PC destroyed by an lightning than being target by an hacker. They go for valueable targets.

You have absolutely no formal training in computers do you? 

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41 minutes ago, JoeFackel said:

That may apply for real hacker targets like corporations etc. but not for Joe Average's Flightsim-Installation (!) running a few hours per weak. There is a higher risk to get your home PC destroyed by an lightning than being target by an hacker. They go for valueable targets.

All it is required if for you to open a website that had a "adware" Trojan (Facebook, Google app store and Windows App store had suffered from this in the pass) or clicking on a phishing link attack and your PC is done, besides the majority of income for hackers don't come from corporations, it comes from the normal user at home who personal details or credit cards get stolen everyday in a matter of seconds.

During the day I work as the Corporate Security and Network Administrator (plus main developer lead role) for an International firm, and during the last 4 years I had always always viruses, malware or adware for every single user at our company that bring their home devices for inspection because their were not using any antivirus or left their windows updated disabled.

Once again my recommendation is to always keep your PC's updated and with an antivirus running.

Best Regards,
Simbol

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