DXGI Prepar3d V4 Help!!

[cj-ibbotson 77]

7 hours ago, Jim Young said:

I have used P3DV4 and all of the other versions of P3D and have yet to get this error.  The problem is your video card overclock or tweaks.  If you do an Internet search for this error you will see it is not just P3D users with this issue but many, many gamers and computer users who do not even know how to spell flight simulation.  Why?  Because people like to tweak, especially gamers.  They don't want to learn the techniques of simulated flying, just tweak and then complain.  How come thousands of other users of P3D, like me, are not having this issue?  I stated at the beginning of this topic that it is the tweaking of your video card that is causing this crash.  Most video cards come with a tweaker for gamers or, if not, they'll get one they heard about from others, like the one from MSI or the one from ASUS.  Just modifying one option on the tweaker will throw this DXGI error.  Not immediately but only when more resources are required during a flight session. 

I think those who are still having a problem with this error need to take a deep breath and reset their Windows 10 and then reinstall everything again (except the video card tweaker).  I have had to do that a couple of times but not because of P3D but with other issues.  Getting crashes like the DXGI error are frustrating especially when there is no one solution to the problem.  But, be aware, there must be a solution as thousands are not getting this error so you should be seeing light at the end of the tunnel as you investigate the what you messed up in your computer system to cause the problem. 

P3D is definitely not buggy and there is no reason to ruin the enjoyment of this hobby because one person has an issue with a US Defense Contractor who allows a team of technical experts to continue the development of an old, old FSX engine.  You can complain and complain but only you can resolve your problem through a thorough examination of your computer system setup.

Please stop mocking AVSIM and the moderating team.  If they had to pin your criticisms of flight simulation and hatred for those who develop things, then the P3D Forum would be starting on the second or third page of these forums.  And that would ruin the enjoyment of this hobby for all.  Not going to happen.

With respect I have to say this but we are constantly going round in circles with the same old 'reasons' for the crash.  I have proved, on my system, it has nothing to do with latest drivers, I have proved it has nothing to do with current Windows as I got it on an 18 month old build of W10 and also 8.1.  The first thing you should do if you get graphics crashes is to ensure everything is on default...I have tested with my cpu on default clock speeds, I have tested with the gpu on factory default (which it always was anyhow), I have tested with the gpu underclocked with no factory overclock, in fact I think I also tested the cpu underclocked.  I have tested on a brand new OS and sim install...NO tweaks whatsoever, no add-ons or shader mods, no tweaker like Afterburner installed...nothing. Even ran the sim on an entirely default installation and on default settings and got a crash.  The fact I have to reduce the Power Limit to 75% on the gpu to make it work isn't really acceptable.  I didnt spent £720 last year on a 1080ti to have to reduce its performance to stop crashes.  Simply reducing clock speeds failed to cure the crashes but reducing the power has helped though that does have an impact on performance.

You may not be aware of the volume of crashes as this is not the only forum out there, Facebook groups are awash with many getting these crashes and whilst some have found some success in applying one of the fixes many have not.  Yes I agree in some cases there could be user error but I wiped my system 3 or 4 times to ensure I had a clean system to try Windows 8.1, try an old 1703 build of Windows 10 and to try the latest build etc.  Something is to blame and is tripping up Prepar3D and crashing it.  All hardware is different, even the same cpu or gpu inherently differs

 

Chris

[cj-ibbotson 77]

5 hours ago, pete_auau said:

its  probably   as  Jim  has  stated  above  users  spend  so much  time  in tweaking  this  and  o/c their  pc   than  they  are  actually  flying.

Afraid in my case this is entirely wrong as I got it on 3 default Windows installations from W8.1, W10 (March 17 Build) and up to date W10.  Tried at least 15 drivers also. Default cpu clock speeds, underclocked gpu speeds, default simulator install, no tweaks at all.  Yes raising values increases the risk of a crash but if you cannot, and many others cannot, run their systems even on default there is a serious problem and I seriously doubt all those experiencing it have faulty hardware. I wish those that dont get the crash would stop putting the blame on user error as its obvious if you tweak things it may crash so during testing people should remove all tweaks, anything that modifies graphical settings etc

Chris

[RockOla 233]

Not claiming this is an universal solution, but on my MSI 970 after downclocking to silent mode (with MSI gaming app), no more issue.

Even with the latest drivers installed, even with frame limiter v2 set to 30 in NVI.

[cj-ibbotson 77]

44 minutes ago, RockOla said:

Not claiming this is an universal solution, but on my MSI 970 after downclocking to silent mode (with MSI gaming app), no more issue.

Even with the latest drivers installed, even with frame limiter v2 set to 30 in NVI.

I assume that app only works on MSI cards? Think I tried installing that before when I was running out of things to try

[RockOla 233]

It would make sense. But you can use an universal tool like Riva Tuner which should work with most mainstream Nvidia cards. 

Edit : for reference, the MSI 970 4G Gaming can clock up to 1140 MHz / 1279 MHz (GPU/Mem). When locked on silent mode, it is limited to the 970 reference frequencies : 1051 MHz / 1178 MHz. Given the limited impact on performances (if any) especially in a simulation like P3D, there is no drawback to downclocking it.

 

Edit 2 : I suggest you give it a try with your gpu manufacturer tool. I collected the main Nvidia manufacturers tools below. Down/Up clocking is often as simple as clicking on a built-in profile. Not happy ? Switch back to the original profile, and uninstall the app.

http://www.sapphiretech.com/catapage_tech.asp?cataid=291&lang=eng

https://www.gigabyte.com/Support/Utility/Graphics-Card

https://www.evga.com/precisionxoc/

https://www.asus.com/us/site/graphics-cards/gpu-tweak-ii/

https://fr.msi.com/blog/detail/unlock-features-and-performance-on-your-msi-gaming-graphics-cards

Edited October 7, 2018 by RockOla

[Jim Young 2,356]

3 hours ago, cj-ibbotson said:

I have tested on a brand new OS and sim install...NO tweaks whatsoever, no add-ons or shader mods, no tweaker like Afterburner installed...nothing. Even ran the sim on an entirely default installation and on default settings and got a crash.  The fact I have to reduce the Power Limit to 75% on the gpu to make it work isn't really acceptable.  I didnt spent £720 last year on a 1080ti to have to reduce its performance to stop crashes.  Simply reducing clock speeds failed to cure the crashes but reducing the power has helped though that does have an impact on performance.

I really do not think FSX or P3D (an app based on the FSX engine) can handle these GPU tweaking programs other than the default settings the respective manufacturer has set.  FSX and P3D are both CPU based programs that uses a lot of resources based on what is loaded and other parameters.  Modern games might be able to exceed the default parameters of GPU tweaking programs but I don't think old programs like FSX/P3D can.  I use the ASUS GPU TweakII for my ASUS manufactured 1080TI video card.  It has three default settings... an OC mode, a gaming mode, and a silent mode.  The respective settings for each mode are the default but one can go in and change, for instance, the default overclocking mode to even higher settings. This is entirely at your risk and, if you get a CTD or other anomaly, or the video card burns up, that's your issue as you went beyond the parameters of the manufacturer.  I believe you have the computer expertise to know this.  We cannot be blaming your issues with your video card on Lockheed or Prepar3D though and that's the point I'm trying to make. 

I recently went through a series of BSOD's and CTD's while using P3Dv4 but I never blamed P3D or any addon for my issue.  I knew it had to be a system driver or the hardware installed.  What was frustrating was the fact I could complete a 2 hour flight without problems one day but see a BSOD or CTD the next day or the next time I used P3D with the same flight scenario.  At first I thought it was a bent MB pin under the CPU, then my ASUS GPU Tweaking program but an investigation of each showed it was something else.  All of my MB drivers were up to date.  Ultimately, it was one of the memory modules (I had 8GB's in each DIMM).  But it took me over a month to investigate and figure this out.  This is the first time I've ever had a problem with a memory module but it is something I can replicate and I have never had a crash or BSOD since removing the bad module.

Your statement that you didn't spend a lot of money on a 1080ti to have to reduce its performance to stop crashes does not make sense.  The manufacturer has an OC mode and you can use his program to overclock with settings tested by experts at the manufacturer's labs.  Anything out of the range of the manufacturers settings is not wise.  If P3D is crashing with the default OC mode settings, then you might want to return the GPU as it may be defective.  I would be very upset if I had the ASUS OC mode set and got crashes because of it. 

I am completely satisfied with my current system.  With the PMDG 747 over a lot of MegaScenery and resource intensive airports like FSDT KORD and FlightBeam KIAD, with nasty weather, and lots of UTLive AI, I still get over 100 fps with very clear ground textures.  I do not have to exceed the manufacturer's recommendations for overclocking my GPU to get this performance.  In fact the tweaking program is set to Gaming Mode.

Anyway, I'm moving this topic to the CTD Forum where it rightly belongs.  Hope you get your issue fixed soon.

[Jim Young 2,356]

8 hours ago, tooting said:

please download the camsim 787 ai model and try and use it in p3dv4.  it wll ctd, as would a ctd occur using the old verions of uk2000 scenery if you didnt remove the fs9*.bgls and then you have the flytampa products causing CTDs if you dont delete the papi bgls.  why you cant make a sticky about these is beyond me, we get at least topic a week about it. 

Pete, AVSIM has a CTD Forum (and a nice Guide too!).  I have seen numerous topics and posts about not using scenery and textures in P3DV4 that were not specifically developed for P3DV4.  They are mostly incompatible.  The AVSIM CTD Guide explains this too around page 10 on how to fix almost every crash in P3DV4 (I'm going to update it soon with more images and easier methods).  The problem with pinned topics is that most do not read them before posting a topic.  Even in the CTD Forum, we have a sticky about a new release of the AVSIM CTD Guide but members still post their issue and, when someone tells them about the guide, they thank them and tell them they will check out the guide.  When you are frustrated with a crash, the first thing you do is post a topic to see if anyone else has experienced it and found a fix.  If you are like me and not seeing straight because of the frustrations associated with CTD's and freezes, you post first and research the guides and forums second.  Someone may then recommend you read the pinned topic at the top of the forum but the post is still going to get posted.  I have a lot of "fixes" in the AVSIM CTD Guide that I have found via searches on the Internet and solutions found by our membership. Unfortunately the "fixes" do not work for everyone and each issue has to be investigated because it is a known fact the FSUIPC utility, when out of date, will cause crashes or other anomalies but not everyone has the FSUIPC installed (and why not?) and do not see the crash.  Carenado modules loaded via the dll.xml will cause CTD's too. Simconnect issues too.  Dotnet and Microsoft Visuals too.  So this is why I came up with a "page 10" on how to fix most crashes and one of the suggestions is to investigate addon scenery that may be incompatible. 

I'm with you and wish developer's who made products for P3DV3 and earlier or FSX would update those programs for 64-bit applications like P3DV4.  Still, all crash topics belong in the CTD Forum where you can simply search that forum for a similar issue and maybe find a fix faster. 

[cj-ibbotson 77]

37 minutes ago, Jim Young said:

I really do not think FSX or P3D (an app based on the FSX engine) can handle these GPU tweaking programs other than the default settings the respective manufacturer has set.  FSX and P3D are both CPU based programs that uses a lot of resources based on what is loaded and other parameters.  Modern games might be able to exceed the default parameters of GPU tweaking programs but I don't think old programs like FSX/P3D can.  I use the ASUS GPU TweakII for my ASUS manufactured 1080TI video card.  It has three default settings... an OC mode, a gaming mode, and a silent mode.  The respective settings for each mode are the default but one can go in and change, for instance, the default overclocking mode to even higher settings. This is entirely at your risk and, if you get a CTD or other anomaly, or the video card burns up, that's your issue as you went beyond the parameters of the manufacturer.  I believe you have the computer expertise to know this.  We cannot be blaming your issues with your video card on Lockheed or Prepar3D though and that's the point I'm trying to make. 

I recently went through a series of BSOD's and CTD's while using P3Dv4 but I never blamed P3D or any addon for my issue.  I knew it had to be a system driver or the hardware installed.  What was frustrating was the fact I could complete a 2 hour flight without problems one day but see a BSOD or CTD the next day or the next time I used P3D with the same flight scenario.  At first I thought it was a bent MB pin under the CPU, then my ASUS GPU Tweaking program but an investigation of each showed it was something else.  All of my MB drivers were up to date.  Ultimately, it was one of the memory modules (I had 8GB's in each DIMM).  But it took me over a month to investigate and figure this out.  This is the first time I've ever had a problem with a memory module but it is something I can replicate and I have never had a crash or BSOD since removing the bad module.

Your statement that you didn't spend a lot of money on a 1080ti to have to reduce its performance to stop crashes does not make sense.  The manufacturer has an OC mode and you can use his program to overclock with settings tested by experts at the manufacturer's labs.  Anything out of the range of the manufacturers settings is not wise.  If P3D is crashing with the default OC mode settings, then you might want to return the GPU as it may be defective.  I would be very upset if I had the ASUS OC mode set and got crashes because of it. 

I am completely satisfied with my current system.  With the PMDG 747 over a lot of MegaScenery and resource intensive airports like FSDT KORD and FlightBeam KIAD, with nasty weather, and lots of UTLive AI, I still get over 100 fps with very clear ground textures.  I do not have to exceed the manufacturer's recommendations for overclocking my GPU to get this performance.  In fact the tweaking program is set to Gaming Mode.

Anyway, I'm moving this topic to the CTD Forum where it rightly belongs.  Hope you get your issue fixed soon.

Thanks for the long reply Jim.  I will clarify Prepar3D did fail with everything on default, fresh installs of OS and sim with no installations of any tweaking utility, no modification of nVidia Control Panel either.  I do not overlock my 1080ti, its a Inno3D GeForce GTX 1080Ti iChill X3 Ultra and didnt come with any software or selectable modes.  It runs at its factory, and supposedly tested and approved, core and memory speeds.  These speeds like most 3rd party cards are higher than the base reference cards.  Only after having so many crashes and seeing one post recommend testing by reducing the core and memory speeds to match nvidias reference card.  It was said to reduce the Boost Speed of 1721mhz down to match the base clock speed of 1607.  This didnt help at all.

I have also tested my memory and it passes all tests and also ran the gpu through every benchmark and stress test app I have on default clock speeds and it passes all without a single glitch but run it on default on P3D and it has a hissy fit and crashes the sim.  I have had the card for almost a year so time has almost run out to return it and I would suspect the same card would be returned to me given it passes all tests and games which stress the life out of it.  I dont understand why you and some others are very defensive about the sim and Lockheed Martin, just because you and many others havnen't experienced the crashes doesn't mean the problem isn't there lurking.  On my past tests it could crash in 10 mins or could take 10 or more hours.  Anyway I've got a more stable sim now when reducing the Power Limit to 75%, over 80% and boom it crashes.  Others who have now tested this on Facebook have also reported improved stability.  I just wish someone in nVidia or LM would listen and perhaps comment how the power setting of the gpu when raised too high (even if still below the manufacturer's approved and retailed settings) is causing the sim to fail.

Chris

[Jim Young 2,356]

21 minutes ago, cj-ibbotson said:

and didnt come with any software or selectable modes.

According to their site, they do have a utility to "tune it" and it comes with 3 different modes - http://www.inno3d.com/static.php?refid=11 and http://www.inno3d.com/products_detail.php?refid=282.

 

25 minutes ago, cj-ibbotson said:

I dont understand why you and some others are very defensive about the sim and Lockheed Martin, just because you and many others havnen't experienced the crashes doesn't mean the problem isn't there lurking.

When FSX was first released, you should have seen many bashing the "Aces Team" members who developed FSX but they were very responsive to our complaints and fixed the problems.  I am positive Lockheed's P3D techs are trying to upgrade P3D and fix all known bugs as quick as they can.  Blaming Lockheed's techs for my BSOD's and CTD's is easy.  Fix it guys/gals!  Your application is really bad because I just got a BSOD after flying 2 hours.  Why did you do this to me?  Now I'm getting an CTD showing ntdll as the faulting module.  What a piece of junk!  Oh, you say it is hardware related?  The ntdll module error indicates a bad overclock or bad texture addon?  Okay, thanks.

If you search the Internet, you will see P3D just happened to be the application running when the error occurred.  Microsoft and other techs have come up with a way to help identify a problem that occurred while using an app so you can get it fixed and resolved sooner.  Just because the DXGI error occurred while running P3D does not mean there is a problem with the app, Prepar3D.  P3D uses a lot of resources because there is a lot of textures to be rendered, physics and modelling associated with flying have to happen, and some like to move the sliders all the way to the max to use even more system resources.  Most errors causing crashes are associated with gaming because they use the most resources so your hardware and system better be prepared to handle it all.  The Internet shows others not using P3D getting the same module errors we all get occasionally when using P3D.  So, to blame Lockheed and P3D for your woes is not proper and correct.  I will stand up forever for the team at Lockheed (including the beta testers), who are doing their best to find the bugs and get them fixed as soon as possible and then release the fixes to the community.

[garymcginnis 3]

This is an error. Its definitely NOT on my end. I have everything completely new (so going back to a new W10 install won't do a thing). The computer only runs P3D. Jim, just because you don't have this issue doesn't mean it's not a problem. I personally had maybe one CTD with FSX and I caused it but that doesn't mean I went around saying people having CTDs with FSX were wrong.

CJ, try 375.70. That was the BEST driver for FSX and I've been using it (along with the downclock) for about 3 weeks now with some success.... granted I've only flown 4 flights. I'm going to undue the downclock since that is bulls**t anyway that we have to downclock a perfectly good card. I'm also going to try Riva.

Won't be able to do anything with the computer until at least 10/17 but I'll keep tabs on here.

Edited October 7, 2018 by garymcginnis

[Jim Young 2,356]

1 hour ago, garymcginnis said:

Jim, just because you don't have this issue doesn't mean it's not a problem. I personally had maybe one CTD with FSX and I caused it but that doesn't mean I went around saying people having CTDs with FSX were wrong.

I share your grief but there are thousands more like me that do not get this error.  Something wrong with your computer system such as I have stated above several times.  P3D or FSX errors show the app was running at the time of the error.  It does not state it was P3D or FSX at fault.  It shows a Windows system file.

[comair25 1]

I contacted EVGA about my 1080ti. They recommended a complete reinstall of Windows, stating it was a possibly a DirectX issue. I refuse to do that and will be RMAing the card instead to see if indeed it is the factory overclock on the card. You know I would believe this is a hardware problem if it happened in other games. Since it doesn't for me, I find that being something hard to believe. 

Edited October 7, 2018 by comair25

[Luke 782]

2 hours ago, Jim Young said:

P3D or FSX errors show the app was running at the time of the error.  It does not state it was P3D or FSX at fault.  It shows a Windows system file.

Actually, it does. The terminated program was the one that made the bad call.

Cheers!

[Guest]

New NVIDIA October drivers, same error. Even worst now because I started to fly my QW 787 1.1.2.a at night, worst than day time.

Now I just reach the state of turning engines on and...CRASH

Why LM doesn't fix this ? All of my games played in the last year never had a single crash, P3D crashes all the times.

The error is from P3D therefore LM is to be blamed.

LM silence speaks by itself

 

-

Edited October 7, 2018 by Guest

[comair25 1]

I noticed my x299 board has a bios update that includes DRAM stability increases. I read on another forum unrelated the P3d that ram somehow might cause the issue. My ram is running using the xmp profile. After flashing the bios I will try again and report back. Earlier this morning I had added the TdrDelay command at 10 seconds as recommended by Nvidia. Passing through FL260 climbing in the evening I received the dxgi hung error. So the TdrDelay regedit disnt help me. 

Edited October 7, 2018 by comair25