shivers9

Ground Handling Woes with Redux

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I have been spending a lot of time with this aircraft. I seem to have a lot of problems with keeping this girl under control while trying to taxi. It tends to wonder all over the place. It seems like the more I adjust the worse things get. Brakes seem very touchy to me and the wind of course makes it like I am on ice. Using FSUIPC. Same with takeoff roll. Always fighting the rudders until 30 or 40 kts then things smooth out. Any one else seeing this. Any suggestions?? I am tired of my passengers barfing and whinning on takeoff roll:ohmy:

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there's an immense amount of torque and that's part of the problem.  It may also be that your calibration is too sensitive.  

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1 hour ago, Milviz said:

there's an immense amount of torque and that's part of the problem.  It may also be that your calibration is too sensitive.  

Well yea, I thought it was a torque issue too but here is what I found. The FDE also inputs an bunch of P factor which I have been trying to overcome with rudder input and before you know it, the nose takes off to the right and then too much left rudder and the carnival ride starts. The answer seems to be turn down the P Factor a bit in the realism settings and recalibrate your rudder pedals. That simple...Problem solved. I am not saying the FDE is wrong, I think that with my old $5.00 worn out Rudder pedals it is just too much to get sorted out with 100% realism in the P factor. Thanks for your reply. It did make me look at the problem from a different direction. I just put this here in case anyone else was experience similar problems.

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On 4/21/2018 at 10:38 AM, shivers9 said:

I think that with my old $5.00 worn out Rudder pedals it is just too much to get sorted out with 100% realism in the P factor.

No! Mine are much newer. I occasionally ride from my local Maryland airport to points in North Carolina in a C310 and it is just not as torque sensitive on takeoff roll as modeled with this release. I too find myself gradually compensating from initial left steering pressure to overcome torque, only to experience shift to compensating for right. then back to left!  So I am serpentining until rotation.  That's not happening in my associates 310. I am here speaking on his response to this. I may be setting in the right seat, but the pedals are his only on TO!

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I had a similar problem on the take off run, but by simply winding in a bit of right ridder trim, seemed to solve the problem to a great extent.

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12 hours ago, Aussieflyer38 said:

Thanks for the post Shivers9 I'm having the same problem, I'll try your fix.

Hope it will help. Let me know how it works for you. I still am messing around with it in hopes of getting it more to my likeing.

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9 hours ago, fppilot said:

No! Mine are much newer. I occasionally ride from my local Maryland airport to points in North Carolina in a C310 and it is just not as torque sensitive on takeoff roll as modeled with this release. I too find myself gradually compensating from initial left steering pressure to overcome torque, only to experience shift to compensating for right. then back to left!  So I am serpentining until rotation.  That's not happening in my associates 310. I am here speaking on his response to this. I may be setting in the right seat, but the pedals are his only on TO!

Thanks for the post. I love this model but makes me feel like a drunken sailor on take off roll. I may have to move the takeoff procedures in the normal check list over to the emergency procedures section.!! LOL I feel so bad when my simulated passengers get sick and cry before I even lift the nosewheel off the runway.

Edited by shivers9

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IT's a strange thing but NO ONE complained with the original FD... and it's exactly the same.

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18 minutes ago, Milviz said:

IT's a strange thing but NO ONE complained with the original FD... and it's exactly the same.

Don't take it wrong. I think this is maybe the best FDE ever of a light twin. We are just trying to figure out how to handle it with our set ups. I don't think Milviz did anything wrong! In fact I am pretty sure that the only problem is that you did too good of a job. This model does not fly on a string like most of the other products. 

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I'm wondering if folks are having trouble because of crosswinds, etc.  Sometimes my take-offs are relatively painless, sometimes not so painless and fighting to keep a descent take-off roll, probably because of the wind at the time.  Just wondering.

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1 hour ago, StewartH said:

I'm wondering if folks are having trouble because of crosswinds, etc.  Sometimes my take-offs are relatively painless, sometimes not so painless and fighting to keep a descent take-off roll, probably because of the wind at the time.  Just wondering.

That is a very good point and 100% on the money. I live in the Panhandle of Florida and we have had a lot of wind over the past couple of weeks. Yesterday it was like 12G22 and was kicking the 310 around on the ground as well as in the air. It is important to remember to set up a no wind situation for doing calibrations and testing. Like I said above this 310 does not fly on a string.

Edit...I should add that about 20 minutes after "sort of" landing back in Pensacola, there was a Tornado warning issued for the area I was flying in. Great fun!!

Edited by shivers9

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Put me in the camp of wondering why some are struggling.  I find holding centerline on takeoff in the 310 no more difficult than most other high-performance GA twins (thinking in particular of the piston and Turbine Dukes here).  I have run-of-the-mill Saitek Pro rudder pedals and really don't have issues unless I'm not paying attention and let myself get behind.  In that case, the plane does what it should do, reminding me that I need to pay attention.

One thing I have noted - since my Saitek throttle quadrants are beginning to wear out and are getting prone to occasional spikes, I'm sometimes getting some brief imbalances between engines on twins when changing power.  The 310 is definitely a handful with asymmetrical thrust on the ground or in the air.  Could this be more of a throttle issue for some users?

Just a thought,

Scott

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2 hours ago, tttocs said:

One thing I have noted - since my Saitek throttle quadrants are beginning to wear out and are getting prone to occasional spikes, I'm sometimes getting some brief imbalances between engines on twins when changing power.  The 310 is definitely a handful with asymmetrical thrust on the ground or in the air.  Could this be more of a throttle issue for some users?

I have noticed much the same thing. I am holding out in the hopes that the new yoke and throttles from Honeycomb will hit the market soon and that they are of better quality. Sounds like they are making the final re-tooling and going into production anyday now.

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10 hours ago, Milviz said:

IT's a strange thing but NO ONE complained with the original FD... and it's exactly the same.

Well on my previous system I had the issue, but I was one of the few with the strange lighting issues which I believe was tied to the landing lights.  That and I was wed to your B55 Baron as it is what years ago I earned my multi-engine and instrument ratings in....

BTW, your Baron is much more compliant on takeoff roll and landing rollout,

10 hours ago, shivers9 said:

Thanks for the post. I love this model but makes me feel like a drunken sailor on take off roll. I may have to move the takeoff procedures in the normal check list over to the emergency procedures section.!! LOL I feel so bad when my simulated passengers get sick and cry before I even lift the nosewheel off the runway.

Oh my!  Its not that bad...  unless perhaps you HAVE been drinking...... LOL

2018-4-11_15-31-44-703-M.jpg

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6 hours ago, tttocs said:

Put me in the camp of wondering why some are struggling.  I find holding centerline on takeoff in the 310 no more difficult than most other high-performance GA twins (thinking in particular of the piston and Turbine Dukes here).  I have run-of-the-mill Saitek Pro rudder pedals and really don't have issues unless I'm not paying attention and let myself get behind.  In that case, the plane does what it should do, reminding me that I need to pay attention.

One thing I have noted - since my Saitek throttle quadrants are beginning to wear out and are getting prone to occasional spikes, I'm sometimes getting some brief imbalances between engines on twins when changing power.  The 310 is definitely a handful with asymmetrical thrust on the ground or in the air.  Could this be more of a throttle issue for some users?

Just a thought,

Scott

Agreed - 100%. However, I had a heck of a time maintaining control today just after rotation. Further investigation revealed a failure to check takeoff flap setting per the before takeoff checklist resulting in a Full Flap takeoff. There's no excuse for complacency. 

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16 hours ago, tttocs said:

Put me in the camp of wondering why some are struggling.  I find holding centerline on takeoff in the 310 no more difficult than most other high-performance GA twins (thinking in particular of the piston and Turbine Dukes here).  I have run-of-the-mill Saitek Pro rudder pedals and really don't have issues unless I'm not paying attention and let myself get behind.  In that case, the plane does what it should do, reminding me that I need to pay attention.

One thing I have noted - since my Saitek throttle quadrants are beginning to wear out and are getting prone to occasional spikes, I'm sometimes getting some brief imbalances between engines on twins when changing power.  The 310 is definitely a handful with asymmetrical thrust on the ground or in the air.  Could this be more of a throttle issue for some users?

Just a thought,

Scott

Hi Scott, I too have RealAir Turbine Duke, B60, Dash 8 etc and they are real ladies compared to this beast. When I take off I can hear the guys in the control tower absolutely wetting themselves with laughter as they watch me get airborne. So Far I have not  been able to get this 360R on a straight takeoff roll, regardless of how I input the power or whatever other adjustments I make. Loosing faith, you bet. I also have a King Air 200 which I was told was real handful, compared to the 360R it's a pussy cat. 

Don  

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I have been flying this bird for a few weeks now and have no issues with takeoff.  What I have found is this plane reacts to which way the wind is blowing and even a bit of a crosswind will make you really need to concentrate on keeping it straight. .

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2 hours ago, FreeBird(Josh) said:

I have been flying this bird for a few weeks now and have no issues with takeoff.  What I have found is this plane reacts to which way the wind is blowing and even a bit of a crosswind will make you really need to concentrate on keeping it straight. .

What he said.  ^^^

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Time to put this Dog to bed. 2 actions fixed all my problems. #1 was I took the time to add about 18 sync's for each the throttles, Props and mixture. Did that this morning and it made a huge difference. I have never used anywhere near this many. I was already loving this plane even more.

#2 I installed a new set of Logitech rudder peds that UPS delivered a couple of hours ago. That just added the iceing on the cake!! I knew mine were way over the hill. All realism sliders to the right and all is well with the world. This beauty will be my go to airplane for some time to come. I knew this was a great plane to fly and it was well worth the effort to get it all sorted out. Thanks for all the suggestions above!!

Thanks again to Milviz for a great product. 

N133CW out.

 

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14 hours ago, shivers9 said:

Time to put this Dog to bed. 2 actions fixed all my problems. #1 was I took the time to add about 18 sync's for each the throttles, Props and mixture. Did that this morning and it made a huge difference. I have never used anywhere near this many. I was already loving this plane even more.

Glad to hear you got things sorted.  This plane has rapidly risen to the top of my "most flown" list as well.

One question?  Could you clarify what you did with your quadrant?  I'm not sure I understand adding "about 18 sync's".

TIA,

Scott

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I will give it a shot here. First of all using  FSUIPC.

1. Go into Joystick Calibration tab and go to the page for Throttle 1 and 2.

2. Next check No reverse zone.

3. Go ahead and calibrate the axis for throttle 1 as normal but no slope and uncheck filter is you have used that.

4. Next move your throttle 1 and throttle 2 a small distance say like 1/4 inch open being sure that both handles are in the same place and even and then click the sync Pos button one time.

5 Move throttles another 1/4 inch or so keeping them even and click Sync Pos button again.

6 Just repeat until you have sync'ed the full throw of the throttles and then do same procedure for Props and mixtures. This procedure will replace the filter and slope functions.

Note....you may get a pop up that says something like sync Pos already exist. Do you want to replace them. Just click no. If you want to start over for some reason click yes and all of you prev. work will be removed. You can see the settings that you just made in the FSUIPC INI file probably near the end.

Note......I started with about 8 settings for each axis and then went back and filled in the spaces with 8 or 10 more settings. I think you can do like 64 or so for each axis but that may be over kill. The added settings will be handled and recorded by the wonderful FSUIPC. That Pete is one smart guy! 

Let me know how it works for you. This C310 FDE has so much fidelality (if that is a word LOL)that it seems to help with the cheap worn Pots in our throttle quadrants.

Edited by shivers9
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I do use FSUIPC, so this is perfect.  It's been a while since I calibrated since I've had these two quadrants forever, but I don't recall doing things that way.

Will give it a shot - thanks!

Scott

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23 hours ago, shivers9 said:

#2 I installed a new set of Logitech rudder peds that UPS delivered a couple of hours ago. That just added the iceing on the cake!! I knew mine were way over the hill. All realism sliders to the right and all is well with the world. This beauty will be my go to airplane for some time to come. I knew this was a great plane to fly and it was well worth the effort to get it all sorted out. Thanks for all the suggestions above!!

If you are using FSUIPC would you share your settings for the new pedals, in particular the slope settings you are using. Not sure if slope for rudders can be saved specific to the aircraft model.

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I did not have time to sort that out yet. Been working on getting my switch panels set up. A couple of things I did notice was that the 310 model is very sensitive of trim settings for rudder and elevators. Given the known Torque generated I would suspect that is true of the real airplane. The other thing is that it seems to need smooth inputs for both power and RPM changes. We have all picked up some bad habits from the Carenado type aircraft where you can sort of just jerk them around the sky. I will let you know what I come up with on the rudder settings.

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