Bugs disappearing?

[Nyxx 6,993]

Yep the FSL 319 does bugs perfect and you can build them up over many flights until you get the ground crew to clean them. Up to you if you get them cleaned or not. The effect is fantastic.

Edited October 11, 2018 by Nyxx

[JRBarrett 3,070]

26 minutes ago, kevinh said:

But if you clean it too quickly people won’t notice this novel effect. I haven’t seen any bug splats yet. I thought persistence between flights was the problem. I’m surprised automatic cleaning is happening during the flight. I’m sorry but I think that’s very unrealistic and makes the feature pointless. Showing bug splatter is only worthwhile if it’s done realistically. If the bug splats are only very temporary why even bother? At the very least the accumulation of “snarge” should remain until the end of the flight.

The persistent bug splatter in the FSL A319 is not obtrusive, so why do you think it might be in the 747?

I’m curious how often the windshields get cleaned in airline operations. In our corporate flight department, we’re slowly getting out of “bug season” here in the northeastern US, but it’s been unusually warm for mid-October, and even when only flying a few legs per day, the cockpit windows can still be quite messy when the day’s flights are complete - (and even more so in summer). We always fully clean the cockpit windows, radomes and wing leading edges of bug debris every evening as part of the daily post flight inspection, but I’d assume airliners get far less TLC when it comes to external cleaning.

I imagine that the captain of a given airline flight could always request the ground crew do a window cleaning if the bug splatter is too severe or distracting, but in watching gate turnarounds from the terminal while flying as a passenger on various airlines, I don’t recall ever seeing it being done. 

[Ephedrin 418]

11 hours ago, JRBarrett said:

I imagine that the captain of a given airline flight could always request the ground crew do a window cleaning

Could for sure. But will those underpaid guys hardly speaking your language do it? The ramp agent hinself probably not. XD

my Cousin was flying the 737 and she always used to open the windows, climbed out as far as possible and poured a water bottle over the windshield and turned on the wipers xD maybe she also had a sponge, I don‘t know. 

With turn around times of barely 40 minutes that‘s probably the most effective solution. Apparently on a 747 this would not be possible though.

Edited October 12, 2018 by Ephedrin

[berts 97]

1 hour ago, Ephedrin said:

my Cousin was flying the 737 and she always used to open the windows, climbed out as far as possible and poured a water bottle over the windshield and turned on the wipers xD maybe she also had a sponge, I don‘t know. 

With turn around times of barely 40 minutes that‘s probably the most effective solution. Apparently on a 747 this would not be possible though.

Health and Safety and the FAA would definitely have a field day if your Cousin did this and she actually fell out!  You say she was flying the 737 at the time which amazes me, because she clearly hasn't learnt any lessons from the BAC 1-11 accident where the Captain found himself hanging out of his window in flight.  A rumour went around at the time that he was allegedly going to buy the beers later that night and, because his wallet was in his back pocket, the other crew members wouldn't let him go.  All joking apart, Capt Lancaster's experience is well documented elsewhere and he was very, very lucky to survive his unfortunate incident. 

The recommended way pilots should clean the windows of a B747 is by making an entry in the Maintenanace Log and letting the Ground Engineers clean them using the proper equipment.  However, if the bug contamination is relatively small it is also possible to use the windshield washer fluid first and then remove the bugs by activating the wipers.  The only downside to this second method is that it can lead to some smearing when removing any 'baked-on' larger bugs and it definitely doesn't work with bird debris, especially Shyte Hawks!  

 

Edited October 12, 2018 by berts
addition

[pete_auau 1,158]

9 minutes ago, berts said:

Health and Safety and the FAA would definitely have a field day if your Cousin did this and she actually fell out!  You say she was flying the 737 at the time which amazes me, because she clearly hasn't learnt any lessons from the BAC 1-11 accident where the Captain found himself hanging out of his window in flight.  A rumour went around at the time that he was allegedly going to buy the beers later that night and, because his wallet was in his back pocket, the other crew members wouldn't let him go.  All joking apart, Capt Lancaster's experience is well documented elsewhere and he was very, very lucky to survive his unfortunate incident. 

The recommended way pilots should clean the windows of a B747 is by making an entry in the Maintenanace Log and letting the Ground Engineers clean them using the proper equipment.  However, if the bug contamination is relatively small it is also possible to use the windshield washer fluid first and then remove the bugs by activating the wipers.  The only downside to this second method is that it can lead to some smearing when removing any 'baked-on' larger bugs and it definitely doesn't work with bird debris, especially Shyte Hawks!  

 

Don't  think  Marc had  meant   she  opened  the  window  whilst  flying.  since  he  was  talking  about  40  minutes  turnarounds which  suggest  she  had  done  it  on the ground

[scandinavian13 5,192]

14 hours ago, JRBarrett said:

I’m curious how often the windshields get cleaned in airline operations.

At ACA/IDE, it was every time through the main station (IAD) in the summer. In the winter, we slacked a bit, but mainly because there wasn't so much scud to get through. We always had a bucket full of soap water in the rampie station (to keep it warm / unfrozen), though, in case someone came in from an outstation that still had some warmth and bugs.

[Ephedrin 418]

Lol yeah there‘s no point in pouring water over a windshield at 300kias. XD 

The 737 isn‘t that big... leaning out a bit and moving your arms is actually enough to get water on the front 😄 you won‘t fall out from this ^^ while yes, sure, nobody would teach you to do that. But asking for a clean windshield is senseless on most european airports too as long as there‘s no bird splattered all over the nose ^^

[Mad_X 12]

And again a sudden change of topic not to discuss the issue itself.

I find the disappearing bugs more of a distraction and immersion killer than not having them. It just is not right. FSL does it correctly. It would be ok not to accumulate them over multiple sessions.  But the current sim session they should not be deleted as it is completely unrealistic. 

 

Matthias Pietsch

[scandinavian13 5,192]

3 hours ago, Mad_X said:

And again a sudden change of topic not to discuss the issue itself.

This is not only not true, the assertion is misleading and dishonest, and I won't stand for that.

Your assertion is that the topic was changed in order to distract people from discussing the actual issue. This is not true because I not only addressed the topic itself, I also made note of the methodology and the approach that we took (attempting to make it balanced between a bit of immersion without being overly obtrusive).

Your assertion is similar to asking someone a question, getting an answer, and then getting upset that the already resolved discussion moved on to other topics. That makes no sense.

By the way, you're guilty of the same distraction by bringing in a different product entirely, by your own odd rule. You may want to have a look inward before casting stones...

[Mad_X 12]

That is simply not correct. The problem is not resolved. You have stated your opinion, that is not a solution it is just - well, an opinion. 

Also naming another developer is not misleading nor distracting because it stays on the topic by highlighting a different approach to the same problem. 

Mentioning cleaning practices of real world planes in NA, while interesting, does not really add to the solution of the topic do you agree? 

Matthias Pietsch

Edited October 18, 2018 by Mad_X

[scandinavian13 5,192]

44 minutes ago, Mad_X said:

That is simply not correct. The problem is not resolved.

What would you consider to be a resolution?

45 minutes ago, Mad_X said:

Mentioning cleaning practices of real world planes in NA, while interesting, does not really add to the solution of the topic do you agree?

It is an interesting detail surrounding the discussion. The discussion is already resolved. An assertion/opinion was put across. It was acknowledged. The opposing stance was explained. The discussion was resolved at that point.

There's no conspiracy here. An assertion was made. I jokingly made a reference to the lack of practical experience to make the assertion, and then explained the design decisions behind the choices. At this point, the discussion was effectively resolved. Further conversation isn't prohibited (the thread remained unlocked, for example), but a stance was made known. Anyone is welcome to continue the discussion, but any tangential discussion isn't - by tin foil hat standard or not - an attempt to distract people from the supposed issue at hand. If you believe that it is, then I would argue that you should take a moment to evaluate your own personal motives.

[windshearDK 52]

if FSLabs can do it, I would request that PMDG considers this option. 

Edited October 19, 2018 by windshearDK

[scandinavian13 5,192]

3 hours ago, windshearDK said:

if FSLabs can do it, I would request that PMDG considers this option. 

Please have a look back at the earlier posts. It isn't that we can't, it's that we chose to walk the line of adding a bit of realism, while also not letting it get too intrusive.

[Ephedrin 418]

Well, in the Airbus I get bugged (hrhr) at 5000ft AGL... not sure about THAT realism... I‘m sure PMDG will at least think about it after the feedback and wishes, there‘s no need to become accusing in any way... if they decide to keep the splatters, fine... if not, fine. At least I don‘t have a dirty side window without moving at all... 

[windshearDK 52]

23 hours ago, scandinavian13 said:

Please have a look back at the earlier posts. It isn't that we can't, it's that we chose to walk the line of adding a bit of realism, while also not letting it get too intrusive.

I fully understand your decision. But maybe it could be an option? The way I see it, most windscreens have some sort of dirt on it, for me personally it adds to the experience, just like when PMDG created stickers for the windscreen.