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jgoggi

Bugs disappearing?

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Hi, is it possible in the -8 to make windshield bugs persistent and increasing until a window cleaning is performed? It's not realistic that they suddenly disappear by themselves...


James Goggi

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48 minutes ago, jgoggi said:

It's not realistic that they suddenly disappear by themselves...

It isn't?


Kyle Rodgers

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3 hours ago, scandinavian13 said:

It isn't?

A bug about bugs. Is this a first?

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1 hour ago, kevinh said:

A bug about bugs. Is this a first?

No, the first bug was actually a bug. A moth caught in the relay of a Mark II and coined by Grace Hopper USN Adm (Ret).  She was the creator of COBOL and the first female Admiral in the USN.  She was a guest speaker at one of my lectures in the USAF Squadron Officer's School and she left an indelible impression.

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Dan Downs KCRP

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6 hours ago, scandinavian13 said:

It isn't?

Does your car windshield get suddenly clean without any human o meteorological intervention? In another airplane the bugs remain (and increase) until you clean the windshield or until it rains…

Edited by jgoggi
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James Goggi

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5 hours ago, jgoggi said:

Does your car windshield get suddenly clean without any human o meteorological intervention?

Your car have a heated windshield and routinely run up to 250 knots and beyond?

Yeah, it's a bit aggressive so as to not be too distracting, but the frame of reference is a bit off...


Kyle Rodgers

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Well, in my airline I read everyday lots of ATL pages and I often get the pirep "Cockpit window dirty, please, clean it"... Looks like window heating and the speed don't have much influence...

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James Goggi

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6 hours ago, scandinavian13 said:

Your car have a heated windshield and routinely run up to 250 knots and beyond?

Yeah, it's a bit aggressive so as to not be too distracting, but the frame of reference is a bit off...

I have to disagree. From my experience doing daily post flights on two CRJ-200s that includes cleaning the cockpit windows, bug splatter remains firmly attached once present. We never see actual insect bodies as you might on a car windshield, but bigger bugs like bees, moths and butterflies can leave quite a significant amount of internal goo on the glass. It spreads out upwards in the direction of the airflow, and dries quickly. If anything, I think the window heat helps to bake it on.

If the aircraft flies through precip, it might dissolve some of the snarge, but otherwise, the bug juice doesn’t disappear. 

That said, it would probably be overkill for PMDG to introduce a “persistent bug state” that carries over from flight to flight!😀

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Jim Barrett

Licensed Airframe & Powerplant Mechanic, Avionics, Electrical & Air Data Systems Specialist. Qualified on: Falcon 900, CRJ-200, Dornier 328-100, Hawker 850XP and 1000, Lear 35, 45, 55 and 60, Gulfstream IV and 550, Embraer 135, Beech Premiere and 400A, MD-80.

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With GFO on the horizon, with its persistent panel states, it would be a plus if the bug splatter persisted too.


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"Snarge" is one my new words for today.

:)


Jude Bradley
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1 hour ago, Jude Bradley said:

"Snarge" is one my new words for today.

🙂

Believe it or not, that’s a legitimate term in the aviation industry. It originally referred to the “blood and guts” remains of a bird strike on an aircraft, but can be applied to heavy bug splatter too.

The government provides free “snarge kits” to aircraft operators. Even in the case of strikes by small birds that may not cause any damage other than leaving a mess on the structure, operators are encouraged to scrape off the remains and place them in the sealed container in the kit, then send it to the USDA Wildlife Service in a pre-paid mailer. 

Researchers do DNA and other analysis on the remains in an ongoing effort to collect data on which specific bird species are involved in aircraft strikes most often.

http://www.jetwhine.com/2012/07/bird-strike-investigators-want-your-snarge/

 

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Jim Barrett

Licensed Airframe & Powerplant Mechanic, Avionics, Electrical & Air Data Systems Specialist. Qualified on: Falcon 900, CRJ-200, Dornier 328-100, Hawker 850XP and 1000, Lear 35, 45, 55 and 60, Gulfstream IV and 550, Embraer 135, Beech Premiere and 400A, MD-80.

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4 hours ago, JRBarrett said:

I have to disagree. From my experience doing daily post flights on two CRJ-200s that includes cleaning the cockpit windows, bug splatter remains firmly attached once present. We never see actual insect bodies as you might on a car windshield, but bigger bugs like bees, moths and butterflies can leave quite a significant amount of internal goo on the glass. It spreads out upwards in the direction of the airflow, and dries quickly. If anything, I think the window heat helps to bake it on.

If the aircraft flies through precip, it might dissolve some of the snarge, but otherwise, the bug juice doesn’t disappear. 

That said, it would probably be overkill for PMDG to introduce a “persistent bug state” that carries over from flight to flight!😀

Yeah, that's kinda what I'm getting at.

Having spent a few summers doing the same for ACA -> Independence on their 200s, I'm well aware that it sticks around (the A3 crew was well known for its bug washes, mostly because of my ramp lead, at the time). I just objected to the "this isn't how it is on cars, ergo, it is clearly wrong on planes."

Note my concession that the window clearing being aggressive, and as you mentioned, a persistent bug state is a bit of overkill. As such, having the window clear automatically relatively quickly ensures that the feature isn't too intrusive, while still adding a bit of a novel effect.


Kyle Rodgers

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While the bug splatter is a nice addition - I too think its a bit unrealistic with the quick disappearing bugs once airborne. 

Take this video for example - https://youtu.be/4Tw71mJEkbY?t=169 you can clearly see bug splatters on the windshield, maybe adding subtle bug splatter effects that remain while in-flight and or create a streak when using the wipers to try and clear it. 

Its a small feature, but if you're adding it - you want to do it right! Take FSL and their A319 with windshield bugs for example...

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22 hours ago, scandinavian13 said:

Your car have a heated windshield and routinely run up to 250 knots and beyond?

Yeah, it's a bit aggressive so as to not be too distracting, but the frame of reference is a bit off...

You could fly at 300 kt or higher and still have plenty of bug problems, I see it first hand all the time.  

 

That being said, not sure I would spend time trying to simulate this....


Rafael Cordoves

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10 hours ago, scandinavian13 said:

Note my concession that the window clearing being aggressive, and as you mentioned, a persistent bug state is a bit of overkill. As such, having the window clear automatically relatively quickly ensures that the feature isn't too intrusive, while still adding a bit of a novel effect.

But if you clean it too quickly people won’t notice this novel effect. I haven’t seen any bug splats yet. I thought persistence between flights was the problem. I’m surprised automatic cleaning is happening during the flight. I’m sorry but I think that’s very unrealistic and makes the feature pointless. Showing bug splatter is only worthwhile if it’s done realistically. If the bug splats are only very temporary why even bother? At the very least the accumulation of “snarge” should remain until the end of the flight.

The persistent bug splatter in the FSL A319 is not obtrusive, so why do you think it might be in the 747?

Edited by kevinh
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