Why is it so hard for addon devs to not alienate customers?

[WotanUK 289]

10 minutes ago, kingm56 said:

That is incredibly unfair, sir.  You, yourself, acknowledged Mr. Rodger's "abruptness"; to be clear, you and I stated the EXACT same thing:

"The quality of abruptness is an almost rude bluntness or suddenness"

Yes and i standby that, but i did go on to explain i understand it to some extent, your reply didn't have any nuance at all, it was just rude directly about Kyle.

[kingm56 1,031]

12 minutes ago, WotanUK said:

Yes and i standby that, but i did go on to explain i understand it to some extent, your reply didn't have any nuance at all, it was just rude directly about Kyle.

So, it's your position that a company can be direct/abrupt; however, when the consumer engages in the EXACT behavior, they're being rude? I did go on to provide 'nuance' a few post below the original...

Edited November 4, 2018 by kingm56

[scandinavian13 5,192]

5 minutes ago, kingm56 said:

So, it's your position that a company can be direct/abrupt; however, when the consumer engages in the EXACT behavior, they're being rude? I did go on to provide 'nuance' a few post below the original...

Perhaps I missed something, but when I'm direct, abrupt, I still provide the answer or feedback contributing to the discussion (though I'm sure that I have - I will admit, wrongly - simply posted something terse without something helpful - it's bound to be out there). The response I got earlier was abrupt, and also asserted that I will never admit to being wrong, despite the post you were responding to including two references where I noted I was incorrect in my actions.

The later post about addressing the customer also seemingly ignores the fact that the customer was being abusive to another customer of ours who was attempting to help him. Would this change your approach?

It's this kind of nuance that I spend a lot of time typing about - and I get that it's boring - but the nuance is where the important stuff is. The FARs are also boring, but there's a lot of important nuance to them. Boring, yes. Important though.

[Peter Webber 340]

I would just like to say to Kyle to stop "beating yourself to death". I believe you provide a fantastic service and I'm sure most members of Avsim feel the same way. Keep up the good work and don't feel compelled to change your ways. Regards.

[cmpbellsjc 2,963]

3 hours ago, pracines said:

I'm telling all of you the truth, that there is a distinct and provable fact these days that doing the wrong thing is becoming good, and doing good is wrong in the eyes (or heart) of the majority throughout the whole world.  

Funny you should say that as I’ve been thinking the same lately, not in the context of the flight sim world but in real life. There was a time that if you were a criminal you’d be treated as such, not celebrated or treated as a victim. I saw a fellow berated by a lady for holding the door open for her. At one point in time the same lady would have berated the same guy for not holding the door open. For us old school folk it’s hard to understand how  right has become frowned upon and doing wrong is now justified by some.

[Matthew Kane 1,343]

From the looks of it some on here are behaving like the counter at a Budget Airline and they just cancelled a flight, usually when that happens I just go for a coffee and call the 1-800 number instead of dealing with all those crazy people yelling. Their are smarter alternatives to the way some people are handing things on here. 

[kingm56 1,031]

18 minutes ago, cmpbellsjc said:

Funny you should say that as I’ve been thinking the same lately, not in the context of the flight sim world but in real life. There was a time that if you were a criminal you’d be treated as such, not celebrated or treated as a victim. I saw a fellow berated by a lady for holding the door open for her. At one point in time the same lady would have berated the same guy for not holding the door open. For us old school folk it’s hard to understand how  right has become frowned upon and doing wrong is now justified by some.

That is a VERY interesting perspective, gentlemen.  Sadly, I don't think I can offer a counter to your thesis; thanks for highlighting this notion...

[Patco Lch 1,479]

41 minutes ago, cmpbellsjc said:

Funny you should say that as I’ve been thinking the same lately, not in the context of the flight sim world but in real life. There was a time that if you were a criminal you’d be treated as such, not celebrated or treated as a victim. I saw a fellow berated by a lady for holding the door open for her. At one point in time the same lady would have berated the same guy for not holding the door open. For us old school folk it’s hard to understand how  right has become frowned upon and doing wrong is now justified by some.

Signs of the times my friends. Isaiah 5:20: " Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who turn darkness to light and light to darkness, who replace bitter with sweet and sweet for bitter".

[WotanUK 289]

I echo what Peter Webber says above, this thread i am sure started with the best of intentions; but now it's begining to look like a personal attack on a member of the community and frankly that makes me uncomfortable.

[pracines 823]

4 minutes ago, WotanUK said:

I echo what Peter Webber says above, this thread i am sure started with the best of intentions; but now it's begining to look like a personal attack on a member of the community and frankly that makes me uncomfortable.

Lets not see this as a personal attack, rather lets see this as "family" issues getting worked out for a better future.

Please lets not allow this to turn into more arguing, but rather provide ideas with solutions to success for all of us.

Commit to care and kindness...benefits will abound! 

[vgbaron 3,714]

This one is right on the edge folks............ if it gets personal again it will be shut down. Discussion is fine, insults will get you a few days off.

Vic

[kingm56 1,031]

36 minutes ago, WotanUK said:

I echo what Peter Webber says above, this thread i am sure started with the best of intentions; but now it's begining to look like a personal attack on a member of the community and frankly that makes me uncomfortable.

Again, I disagree, sir; moreover, I believe you, and many others, conflate the individual with their positions as corporate representatives.  My concern is with the latter; thus, I believe the criticism is justified. To that point, having a beer/coffee with these gentlemen is vastly different than requesting support for a product we paid premium prices to obtain.  Once someone takes your money in exchange for services, the friendship dynamic changes.  You'll note I don't refer to the individuals referenced via their first names, like you and many others.  That's because I don't conflate the relationship; in short, they're the content producer and I'm the consumer. To that point, I believe the current support does not equate to the prices, thus the criticism. I maybe mistaken, but ALL the criticism was directed at the members' customer service roles and not their personal lives.  Again, concerning the latter, I have all the confidence in the world they're excellent people who I would love to have a beer with; yet, I think its fair to question if they're suited for SOME of their particular roles.  

To be clear, I respect your position, Ian; I just have some minor disagreements.  Otherwise, I truly enjoy reading your posts.  

Edited November 4, 2018 by kingm56

[scandinavian13 5,192]

FWIW, if it was implied that it was an overtly personal attack on me (seems like that was the assertion, but I cannot say for sure), I don't see this as a personal attack. I see a couple shots taken in my direction, but I don't see anyone really coming after me on a personal level. It has walked the line in spots, but I still think the main issue is a disagreement on the context of the situation.

As far as the "not naming names" defense, I would submit the following, however, as, while the reference is "he," in the context of the quoted post, and the content/subject of that post, I think it's a bit disingenuous to claim not to name names. In a technical sense? Sure. A name was not used...but it's pretty clear who the 'he' is.

 

[Captain Kevin 586]

4 hours ago, kingm56 said:

Finally, PMDG charges premium prices; consequently, they should offer premium service. Charging $200+ for an add-on should entitle a customer to professional and courteous support from the PMDG team; random customers shouldn't be asked to fulfill PMDG obligations. 

Here's the thing. PMDG has always stated that if you want PMDG support, the official method of doing so is by submitting a support ticket via their support portal. The forums are strictly user to user. PMDG may or may not necessarily see and/or respond to everything that's posted on the forum. Therefore, if somebody posts a topic on their forum, it shouldn't be a surprise that other users are responding to said topic, whether the original poster likes it or not.

[kingm56 1,031]

56 minutes ago, scandinavian13 said:

FWIW, if it was implied that it was an overtly personal attack on me (seems like that was the assertion, but I cannot say for sure), I don't see this as a personal attack. I see a couple shots taken in my direction, but I don't see anyone really coming after me on a personal level. It has walked the line in spots, but I still think the main issue is a disagreement on the context of the situation.

As far as the "not naming names" defense, I would submit the following, however, as, while the reference is "he," in the context of the quoted post, and the content/subject of that post, I think it's a bit disingenuous to claim not to name names. In a technical sense? Sure. A name was not used...but it's pretty clear who the 'he' is.

 

That's not what I was implying, sir.  I don't know you from a personal perspective, which is why I won't refer to you, or other corporate entities, by their first names.  To that point, referring to you by your first name implies a friendship that doesn't exist; obviously, pronouns are agnostic.  The crux of my post was to suggest that some posters are offering a defense/rationale from a friendship vice corporation/consumer perspective, which i believe alters their perspective.  As I've stated over and over again, PMDG is a registered corporation; you're not our friends.  IMO, you're failing to provide a service on par with your prices. Again, I can't say this clearly enough: you appear to be an impressive young man; however, I take issue with how you treat paid customers.  I'd have the same feeling if you worked for Apple, Microsoft or Google.  Finally, this thread was not directed solely at you; I regret its moved in that direction as you're the least concerning of the four corporations/people the OP mentioned.  

Edited November 4, 2018 by kingm56