1st fltsimguy

Flight1 Frustration - Am I the only one

Recommended Posts

Over the decades I have purchased many products from these folks.

I can't recall a time lately when an update reinstall has gone smoothly. Their complicated system of inputting certificates and or logging into accounts is painful, especially when one has not used it in some time.

Just last night I try to do my RXP GTN update for XP11, I am several updates behind, and I can't log into my account using my tried and true password, which fails and so I get desperate thinking perhaps I changed it and can't recall and try other know passwords which then locks you out of your account.

Then I open a ticket, then they respond by saying I've sent the ticket to the wrong department but offer no redirect to solve my issue.

Its like trying to get service from a large gov't organization and endless loops of passing the buck because its not my responsibility.

I hate dealing with their system, I hate the time I waste and I hate how annoying and frustrating it can be. Flight1's system is by far in my opinion the worst of all the flightsim commercial sites that I deal with. I hate their system so much that I would do anything to buy products from other providers than deal with this ongoing frustration. AND I still haven't been able to get my update resolved.

JustFlight, Carenado is so simple one can do it in your sleep.

Nuff said! There will be no Christmas purchases from Flight1 this year.

Share this post


Link to post
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

4 minutes ago, 1st fltsimguy said:

Over the decades I have purchased many products from these folks.

I can't recall a time lately when an update reinstall has gone smoothly. Their complicated system of inputting certificates and or logging into accounts is painful, especially when one has not used it in some time.

Just last night I try to do my RXP GTN update for XP11, I am several updates behind, and I can't log into my account using my tried and true password, which fails and so I get desperate thinking perhaps I changed it and can't recall and try other know passwords which then locks you out of your account.

Then I open a ticket, then they respond by saying I've sent the ticket to the wrong department but offer no redirect to solve my issue.

Its like trying to get service from a large gov't organization and endless loops of passing the buck because its not my responsibility.

I hate dealing with their system, I hate the time I waste and I hate how annoying and frustrating it can be. Flight1's system is by far in my opinion the worst of all the flightsim commercial sites that I deal with. I hate their system so much that I would do anything to buy products from other providers than deal with this ongoing frustration. AND I still haven't been able to get my update resolved.

JustFlight, Carenado is so simple one can do it in your sleep.

Nuff said! There will be no Christmas purchases from Flight1 this year.

They are in the process of trying to update to a new system. The old system can be a challenge but I have in the past been able to get what I needed. At times it can increase you booze bill a bit though. LOL

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Just now, shivers9 said:

They are in the process of trying to update to a new system. The old system can be a challenge but I have in the past been able to get what I needed. At times it can increase you booze bill a bit though. LOL

LOL...for me this morning its coffee's...perhaps too many.

And after an hour more still no resolution.

Share this post


Link to post

Have you downloaded their new Flight1 Purchase Agent? It makes it way easier to download and manage your purchases.

Share this post


Link to post

SUCCESS!

The first issue is finding the bloody *.lic file, while all Flight One's are stored in folder "Flight One Software" the RXP bought from Flight1, IS NOT, its stored in "RealityXP"...how convenient, of course since its been a year how the heck am I to remember or know this.

The second issue was to renew my password. Again for the umpteenth time.

And then to the log in and install etc.

I notice also that the order list doesn't have any links is just a list of purchases, when in fact all they need to do is have some servers and also one to click on the order link and pull down the latest version.

Edited by 1st fltsimguy

Share this post


Link to post
9 minutes ago, jlund said:

Have you downloaded their new Flight1 Purchase Agent? It makes it way easier to download and manage your purchases.

Never heard of it. I didn't recall getting an email to do this? Given my first purchase from them dates back to 2004 and the list is as long as my arm I would have thought this would be the case.

However perhaps they did I get some 70-150 emails alone form flightsim subscriptions a day and if it was not flagged as important it might have just got lost in the woodwork.

Interestingly, in the ticket response they did not even mention that I should look into this.

Thanks for this notification!

Edited by 1st fltsimguy

Share this post


Link to post

When you first install it unwraps the installation files, I back those up and use the unwrapped files to reinstall so you don't have to go through that initial process anymore. You still need the licence though. This works for me

Yes Purchase Agent is good too

Share this post


Link to post
6 minutes ago, Matthew Kane said:

When you first install it unwraps the installation files, I back those up and use the unwrapped files to reinstall so you don't have to go through that initial process anymore. You still need the licence though. This works for me

Yes Purchase Agent is good too

And as usual a good point.

I usually back everything up and guess what, in this case I had not and so had no copy in my payware backups of this information.

I make many many purchases for P3DV4, and now XP its a nightmare of originals and backups of payware purchases, not helped by F1's separate file folders in C drive.

So I just copied the RealityXP install folder into my backup of the installers and its all organized now. Including a note on my new password.

Edited by 1st fltsimguy

Share this post


Link to post

I've never had a problem resetting licences, passwords or replacing lost keys in all the years I've uaed Flight One. A bit of a fiddle some times, but never an issue.

Share this post


Link to post
8 minutes ago, 1st fltsimguy said:

So I just copied the RealityXP install folder into my backup of the installers and its all organized now.

Hi,

I'm sorry for the unfortunate installation experience in using our e-commerce procurement partner solution, and how it forces the creation of a folder with our company name in the root drive. This is how the solution is designed.

However, with the Reality XP GTN 750/650 Touch and the Reality XP GNS 530/430 V2, you can move the corresponding ".lic" files to a more convenient folder in the "My Documents" folder: "C:\Users\<logon_name>\Documents\Reality XP\"

NB: the .lic files are purchase authentication tokens created in using the e-commerce installer and mandatory for our products to run.

Edited by RXP

Share this post


Link to post

OK so I just downloaded and installed their NEW Purchase Agent.

Egad!, its mixed advertising products with my orders, there are settings and buttons, and still certificates, license managers, folder settings....

I don't want this sort of complexity; more software complexity, tabs, buttons, click this and that.

I want to log into my account, see a list of my orders, click on download, save it to a location, install...and if there is a serial key copy paste...finished.

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
3 minutes ago, RXP said:

Hi,

I'm sorry for the unfortunate installation experience in using our e-commerce procurement partner solution, and how it forces the creation of a folder with our company name in the root drive. This is how the solution is designed.

However, with the Reality XP GTN 750/650 Touch and the Reality XP GNS 530/430 V2, you can move the corresponding ".lic" files to a more convenient folder in the "My Documents" folder: "C:\Users\<logon_name>\Documents\Reality XP\"

NB: the .lic files are purchase authentication tokens created in using the e-commerce installer and mandatory for our products to run.

Thanks Jean Luc...I have just found that and copied over that folder to my separate HD and saved it with the installer update.exe.

Share this post


Link to post

I totally agree with you that Flight1's way of doing it is by far the most difficult solution on the market. I do think the Purchase Agent have made it easier, but I would also like it to be like ie. Simmarket, where you log in, download your product, copy/paste the serial nr and that's it.

I have no doubt that Flight1' method is making it more difficult for pirates, but why make it so difficult for their paying customers.

  • Like 3
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Just now, jlund said:

I totally agree with you that Flight1's way of doing it is by far the most difficult solution on the market. I do think the Purchase Agent have made it easier, but I would also like it to be like ie. Simmarket, where you log in, download your product, copy/paste the serial nr and that's it.

I have no doubt that Flight1' method is making it more difficult for pirates, but why make it so difficult for their paying customers.

There you go...SimMarket are another site where its easy!

Share this post


Link to post

I relate to Amazon.com and .ca...where I can buy bizillions of $$$ of stuff with "One Click" and two days later its at my door...

Now that's how its supposed to be done.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, jlund said:

Have you downloaded their new Flight1 Purchase Agent? It makes it way easier to download and manage your purchases.

The old system was not good, the new purchase agent makes it, in my opinion, even more complicated. What I dislike the most is that Flight1 does not give you the option to purchase a product on a non-Microsoft device. I generally avoid entering payment details on my Windows PC (I just don't trust it), and Flight1 is the only company that forces me to do just that.

Peter

Share this post


Link to post

I don't think the Agent is perfect, but still thinks it's an improvement to the old system. I can't remember, but doesn't Flight1 support Paypal?

 

Edited by jlund

Share this post


Link to post

I don't think there's been a copy protection system ever made that someone, somewhere didn't like.

Flight1 is the worst?  Really??  So they're worse than outfits that want you to buy a for-fee extended download service to get the latest version of your software?  Worse than developers that use Esellerate, which recently had its validation servers stop working over a long weekend and they didn't get it fixed for around 4 days?  Worse than products that require an internet connection to a working validation server every time they are run?  Worse than products that require several days of e-mail exchanges to get the registration reset every time they are re-installed to a new PC?  Worse than products sold though a now-defunct reseller or a reseller that has broken ties with the developer and can/will no longer provide updates?  I think there are a lot of worse options out there than Flight1.

I get that it might be frustrating to have to jump a few hurdles when you want it to just work, but I've found over the course of many years doing this that Flight1 has a pretty reliable system that strikes a fair balance between the need to use the software you paid for and their need to keep their IP from being stolen in wholesale fashion.  Flight1 has a pretty reasonable mechanism for install validation, automated reactivation after multiple installs, even an automated service to provide you a complete list of every product you've ever bought from them.  They're present and active on their forums, too.  Now if you forget your password, that's gonna be a problem anywhere...just try to get into the SimMarket or JustFlight or Aerosoft website without your password...it won't work out well there either!

I just did a complete system rebuild, and in all honesty, getting my Flight1 titles reinstalled on a fresh build wasn't even in the top ten of the biggest hassles associated with that project.

Regards

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Hey, Bob --

I have to agree with the OP. I dread having to update or re-install F1 products! It's like finding your way thru a corn maze!

A couple weeks ago I was alerted to an update for GEX, which I reluctantly proceeded with. The instructions were very lengthy and seemed unrealistically complex, as usual, and included converting to their new download system, from the original DVD, system(which sounds like it will be easier). First I had a problem getting recognized as a legit purchaser. Then I tried for almost 2 days to install the upgrade and kept getting an error message. Jeff and Nick were on it immediately though and were very patient. Turns out it was my failure to follow the instructions, exactly, that caused the problem. It was clearly written that both the installer exe file and the data file were to be downloaded and placed in a shared folder before the installation was initiated. Duh! After Nick pointed that out it went smoothly and I had the updated NA and APT! I then attempted to install EU GEX, which is not currently on this PC. I used the exact sign in procedures that finally worked before and it said I wasn't recognized as a legit purchaser and also warned that if I entered wrong information too many times I would be shut out entirely! I said heck with it, I don't fly much in Europe anyway!!

That said, all your points are valid!

Greetings from PHX!

Bruce

Share this post


Link to post

I'll agree with the OP, Flight 1's copy protection process (and a few others) isn't something I'd consider user friendly and I have avoided buying products from Flight 1 because of it ... there ARE better ways to accomplish DRM with less user issues/hassle and I'm sure it's costing Flight 1 support time because even though I can work thru the process, I know many just like the OP that have problems and/or avoid Flight 1 purchases.

I did get their latest Flight 1 update manager and it really didn't make the process that much less clunky ... to sell and install products, one wants to make that process as fast and as transparent as possible before the buyer changes their mind 😉  Orbx and a few other vendors have an excellent ease to buy/install process, I'd love to see more like that especially given that I buy just about every product made for P3D V4.  But when it comes to Flight 1 delivery, I'll look for alternative web stores that might have the same product without the fuss.

Since we're on the topic and I'm in the middle of a fresh PC install of everything, "deactivation" shouldn't require special procedures, the Uninstaller should by definition do any necessary deactivation work ... I should NOT need to load the product to deactivate the product license or even worse there is no deactivation process ... a support call is "required" ... I don't see how this is good for the vendor as it just increases their support costs.  For someone like me, who's regularly changing hardware it's a hassle and time consumer and just adds unnecessary delays to the process.

I'm obviously very Pro-DRM, but there are much better ways to be transparent about it and if deactivation is required, add it to the uninstaller as this will ultimately save on support costs.

Cheers, Rob.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Rob Ainscough said:

I'm obviously very Pro-DRM, but there are much better ways to be transparent about it and if deactivation is required, add it to the uninstaller as this will ultimately save on support costs.

Cheers, Rob.

Good advice, I will try to implement on my future products however I think the current uninstaller compilation software I am using cannot support it, maybe this is the reason others haven't done it, but I do agree it is something that would help.

I think ideally we should ask the user: Do you want to de-activate your license? and If they say no, then when they re-install the product in the future things should just continue to work.

Regards,
S.

Share this post


Link to post

Hi Raul,

The version of Install Shield that comes with VS 2017 has all you need to launch a process during Uninstall ... that process can do the deactivation.  Also, no requirement to make license key and activation the same, separate them so just prompt to re-activate if valid key found (no need to re-enter the key).  Many ways to track activation's to catch piracy/theft.

Cheers, Rob.

Share this post


Link to post

Boy, I must be doing something wrong. I've bought many titles from Flight1 and have uninstalled, reinstalled and transferred to several new systems with ease.  I think the problems arise with people who don't use them often and forget the procedure or where their .lic files are located.

Are there easier methods? You bet but F1's method is still very easy.

Vic

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, vgbaron said:

I think the problems arise with people who don't use them often and forget the procedure or where their .lic files are located.

I think you hit the nail on the head there Vic. Every developer has a different system that they are intimately familiar with and to them it is easy and straight forward. For the average avsim member that has products from 10 or 20 developers it is mind numbing to try and remember how each one works. It generally takes me a whole evening to uninstall and reinstall a product because first I need to scan my computer for any documents that might have instructions on the correct way to do it. Then I need to go to the developers website and scour it and the forums for any further instructions. Before I RTFM, I need to Find the FM as each developer has it in a different location. I really miss the old days of just popping in the DVD and following the instructions. Why can't the developers put all the instructions needed in their installers and uninstallers? And while I am on my whining rant, it would be nice if the reasons for doing things when you have options like de-activating, where also included with the instructions.

Back on topic, I haven't had any major problems with the Flight1 installers but there are certainly much easier and intuitive ones used by other developers.

Heck, sometimes I wish we still had the option for complete manual installs as then I would know what is being added to my computer and where. I know it is more cumbersome, but I believe it forced people to understand how the sim worked by manually installing addons..but now I'm really digressing....

Ted

Share this post


Link to post

No one should tell me what folder or drive to install in.  No one should clutter my computer with files all over the place.

If I wish to use a 120GB ssd I should be able to, it is not right for a seller to take it over.

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now