This might not be much help to you Ray but as an Aussie we get hit too. 

To save on fees I use PayPal where I can and pay by credit card. When you go to PayPal to complete the transaction and select which card, you can change the currency conversion options to either let PayPal convert or let you bank do the conversion.

This of course depends on the banks but with my bank there is no currency fee you just get a better conversion rate than using PayPal. Using PayPal at the merchant also aliviates the 2-3% credit card processing fee for me too. 

Avidean,

Tongue in cheek but...

Wisdom of the ages???   If a fool and his money are soon parted, how did the fool get his money in the first place?

Regards

Tony

8 hours ago, skelsey said:

Eh? Unless something has changed significantly since I last purchased from any of the vendors discussed I have always used either a debit card or occasionally PayPal for all of my flight sim purchases (and frankly about 99% of my other purchases!), including from Simmarket and PMDG!

Are you living in the UK Simon? And when you used your debit card were you charged for paying by that method?

Look at your bank statement. You are definitely charged by PayPal even when they take the money directly from your current bank account.

7 hours ago, johnnycrockett said:

This might not be much help to you Ray but as an Aussie we get hit too. 

To save on fees I use PayPal where I can and pay by credit card. When you go to PayPal to complete the transaction and select which card, you can change the currency conversion options to either let PayPal convert or let you bank do the conversion.

This of course depends on the banks but with my bank there is no currency fee you just get a better conversion rate than using PayPal. Using PayPal at the merchant also aliviates the 2-3% credit card processing fee for me too. 

You either have different rules in Oz or your credit card company and banks have a better attitude than those in the UK. PayPal take the money straight from my current account but still charge me. I won't use them again.

Being at the mercy of currency fluctuations will probably remain a significant problem until there is a change in the situation of flight sim vendors dictating a mandatory single currency of purchase for some or all of their customers.  

Ray mentioned UK2000. For people outside the UK, it is the same as us buying from Just Flight. We in the “rest of the world” have to buy in USD the British product being sold by the British vendor.

The cushioning factor is that when buying from Simmarket (can only buy in Euros) and in USD from UK2000, for us “rest of the world” the price is free of VAT (and it also seems that Simmarket has given up charging a surcharge for purchases using PayPal).

The unfortunate aspect of currency fluctuations and a mandatory currency of purchase is that it can mean that trying to maintain loyalty to a good vendor can come at a not insignificant financial impost.

A current example of what I am talking about is the new Just Flight Duchess 76.

From various posts I have seen, the Just Flight UK price is (I am rounding all of these amounts for simplicity) 28 UKP. For me here in Australia, that converts to AUD $50.

However, if I buy the product directly from JF (who are great vendors to deal with) at the mandatory USD price for the “rest of the world”, as I am required to do, I pay JF USD $42 which converts to AUD $58, the same as if I buy it at PC Aviator US store or at FS Pilot Shop.

But, if I buy it at Simmarket, I pay 29 Euros which is free of VAT and converts to AUD $46.

Here in Australia, the PC Aviator Aust price is AUD $46 (which includes a 10% Goods and Services Tax) but on a Tuesday the product is 10% cheaper ie about AUD $42.

Thus, it is more price attractive for me to buy a product from someone in Australia or from Simmarket.

Also, currently, people outside Australia buying from an Australian outlet at an AUD price usually end up in a favourable position when the conversion to the customer’s currency takes place – assuming that the Australian outlet has the product you want, which would not assist Ray with his two intended purchases.

I accept that there is nothing we can do about currency fluctuations and we need to learn to live with them (and use them to our advantage if possible). Frequently, they are a “what goes around comes around” exercise. For example, as touched on by Mike, in 2009 the AUD was buying only about USD $0.60, between about 2010-2013 the AUD was above parity with the USD but now it is buying only about USD $0.71.

I have no problem about products being sold only in the currency of the country of the vendor. What I fail to understand is why for some vendors, customers from other than the vendor’s home country can only buy in a different currency.

Gary

 

 

 

 

31 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

living in the UK

Simon was on the stand at FSL at the recent Cosford2017, Ray.

Paying by PayPal for any non-UK purchase they access your current account, and thus pay on one's behalf for a € or  $ purchase. But their Exchange Rates are so abysmal, that one ends up paying more even taking in account what fee the UK bank will charge for using a DC or CC. That's why i avoid them for anything non-UK.

So was Lefteris Rick but that doesn't mean he's a UK resident. 😉

The PayPal story reminds me of Tesco who state no charges for changing unused currency back into Sterling. But the exchange rate is abysmal, just like PayPal.

3 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

So was Lefteris Rick but that doesn't mean he's a UK resident

I'm nearly 100% sure Simon is just by having met and spoken to him at that stand. If I cannot detect a Brit accent by now, albeit could well be a 'Across-the-pond-visitor', then I may as well go and pick dandelions in winter🤣

4 minutes ago, vc10man said:

I'm nearly 100% sure Simon is just by having met and spoken to him at that stand. If I cannot detect a Brit accent by now, albeit could well be a 'Across-the-pond-visitor', then I may as well go and pick dandelions in winter🤣

😀 Okay, we can assume he’s UK based. But if you read his post he doesn’t say if he was charged for the currency conversion. That is the essence of my complaint. If I can avoid that charge (over £3 for the PMDG737 bought directly from them) then I’ll use my debit card.

Maybe the credit card option on SimMarket etc. also includes debit cards but isn’t explicitly stated.

35 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Maybe the credit card option on SimMarket

Don't know, as I swore I will never ever again go to simMarket.

Good luck with them anyway re:DC usage.

I've looked at this before.  If I add up all the fees that I pay, it doesn't come close to paying for a credit card that doesn't have fees.  The other bonus is I get points / cash back and pay just one bill on the card that does have fees.

@bic, you're based in the US so can buy in your own currency for the vast amount of software.

I've gone through the buying process at both FlyTampa and SimMarkets and they do not offer a Debit Card option. Only Credit Card, PayPal and a few others none of which I can use.

This feels like a conspiracy. If I enter my debit card details and agree to the money being taken then why cannot I have that option? Software is not like buying something physical off Ebay where protection against a dodgy seller might require you to claim your money back. That is not an option for digital downloads.

The best option appears to be the credit card mentioned by Fudge that has no fees. I'll simply pay off the balance each month.

5 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Are you living in the UK Simon? And when you used your debit card were you charged for paying by that method?

Look at your bank statement. You are definitely charged by PayPal even when they take the money directly from your current bank account.

Hi Ray,

I am UK based, yes. I would have been charged by my bank for the currency conversion paying by debit card in something other than GBP, yes (2.75% for my bank at the moment). Not saying it's necessarily the cheapest way as it will obviously depend on your bank's terms but the option to pay by debit card is definitely there! (Edit to add: I'm sure it's lumped under 'credit card').

Re: paypal: I just checked my latest foreign PayPal transaction and for €9 PayPal converted that to £8.34 (at 1.0797 Euros to the pound in November). My bank account was subsequently debited £8.34, so there was no obvious additional fee though whether that exchange rate was favourable compared to, say, the bank rate + transaction fee I am not sure - I doubt the bank would have been able to compete though!

Personally I don't really spend enough in foreign currency to make it worthwhile getting another credit card etc (any account fees would almost certainly outweigh the savings) though certainly there are ways to avoid the fees as discussed above and as Martin Lewis will tell you!

@skelsey, Simon, thanks. That Euro conversion was a rip-off. Should have been closer to 1.12 - 1.15 in November. They'll always get your money whatever way they do it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cx250jmk4e7t/pound-sterling-gbp

Still confused by your claim you can use debit card with SimMarkets. I just checked and unless you can enter debit card details in the credit card option I just don't see how it's possible.

I just checked my Santander debit card on moneysavingexpert and it's rated "the card from hell". My Barclaycard is just as bad with a 2.99% loading.

Halifax Clarity is the one. Zero charges! 😊

6 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Still confused by your claim you can use debit card with SimMarkets. I just checked and unless you can enter debit card details in the credit card option I just don't see how it's possible.

Hi Ray,

Sorry, I think I edited my post to clarify as you were posting! Almost certain that it is lumped under the credit card section. I do know that I have definitely used my debit card on Simmarket in the past and I have definitely never used a credit card on there!