A request to MSFS team

[F737MAX 5,806]

7 minutes ago, Bert Pieke said:

Be careful what you wish for... A curated store may destroy the innovation that we have seen over the previous releases of MSFS..

"Painting outside the lines" is what brought us the Majestic Q400, Reality XP Garmin avionics etc..

You want Microsoft to screen that out? 

It's a fine balance that would be hard to get right. But it's got to be better than the multiple number of shader programs that only work under certain product combinations, the soon-to-be 3 payware versions of FAOR which look straight out of FS2004 or the €15 program that just changes a shadow value in the p3d.cfg file.

[ca_metal 2,037]

2 minutes ago, Paraffin said:

I can relate to that desire for quality. However, there is a downside, if all add-on content is curated and there is a minimally accepted level of quality. 

Example: One of my favorite planes is the DHC-2 Otter. It's partly just because it's a neat bush plane, but I also have a personal history of ditching at sea in a Costa Rica government Otter, back when I was an aerial photographer. Tough bird, good pilot, and we all got out okay.

I have the STMA model of the Otter in XP11. It's been updated minimally from the older XP versions, and it's looking a bit long in the tooth in graphics, sounds, and systems modeling compared to current standards of XP11's best aircraft models. But I'm glad it's there at all, so I can fly it now and then! I assume everyone here also has a few oddball favorites they'd like to see.

Planes like the DHC-2 aren't in everyone's Top Ten list, or maybe even Top 50. It could take a long time for someone to decide to try modeling one from scratch for the new MSFS. But it may not be too difficult to port an existing model, especially if the new MSFS is using an evolved version of EPS. Even if it's not, it might not be too difficult. Carenado only uses the 3D modeling, textures, and sounds from their FSX/P3D models when they port to X-Plane, with ground-up flight and systems modeling for the new sim.

If the plan is to allow 3rd party distribution away from MS's own storefront, then that shouldn't be a problem. But if it's all funneled through a highly curated MS storefront, then we might not see a plane like that for a very long time.

 

11 minutes ago, Bert Pieke said:

Be careful what you wish for... A curated store may destroy the innovation that we have seen over the previous releases of MSFS..

"Painting outside the lines" is what brought us the Majestic Q400, Reality XP Garmin avionics etc..

You want Microsoft to screen that out? 

Like I said, if it was my decision, I would create two inviroments: 

- Curated Store: Microsoft would have a share on the sales and would provide the support for the devs and for the costumers. Minimum quality required. Not allowing all kinds of add-ons (add-ons to improve shadows or colors? It should be done by the base sim).

- Not curated/Sold outside Microsoft's enviroment: Wild-West. Download the SDK and do whatever you want. Costumers using those add-ons have to talk to their devs to get support on them (freeware or payware).

This way we would have support from Microsoft on their own store. I would only buy curated products myself, unless it's a product of really good quality only outside this enviroment.

[ca_metal 2,037]

9 minutes ago, overspeed3 said:

Don't see a deal ever featuring MS2020-Steam.  But again, that may depend on the future success of the so-called 2020 version...  

I wouldn't count on that. Microsoft is on the talks with Valve for a while. I'm pretty sure in the near future MS will be releasing all their games on Steam. A lot of their games are already being brought to Steam.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/30/18645250/microsoft-xbox-game-studios-publishing-valve-steam-32-bit-windows

Edited June 21, 2019 by ca_metal

[Peter Clark 21]

In another thread didn’t someone from MS specifically get quoted as saying Steam was a delivery platform?

[Pastaiolo 1,688]

1 hour ago, Bert Pieke said:

 

Carenado has been porting over FSX airplanes into XP11 and met with good user acceptance.

Yeah, but they only ported over textures and 3d models. The rest was developed by other developers specifically for XP.

What i am afraid with some current developers is that they have been developing addons for FSX first, and P3D later (without any major additional features) and that is most of what they are capable of at the time.
Also another aspect to consider: since the ESP engine has certain limitations, it might be the case in which addons for it were developed with these limitations in mind and a port over means we will get the same addon with the same limitations even tho perhaps the new engine won't suffer from said limitations.

I hope i made myself  clear

[Bert Pieke 7,599]

7 minutes ago, france89 said:

Yeah, but they only ported over textures and 3d models. The rest was developed by other developers specifically for XP.

What i am afraid with some current developers is that they have been developing addons for FSX first, and P3D later (without any major additional features) and that is most of what they are capable of at the time.
Also another aspect to consider: since the ESP engine has certain limitations, it might be the case in which addons for it were developed with these limitations in mind and a port over means we will get the same addon with the same limitations even tho perhaps the new engine won't suffer from said limitations.

I hope i made myself  clear

I do not think you are giving the addon development community sufficient credit..

There are some pretty darn talented people out there.. Have faith

 

[Superdelphinus 718]

I’m pretty sure there will be a way to buy and manage add-ons within the game. It’s basically an industry standard now, and has been for several years. 

I hope there’s a way that they can give the properly good developers (particularly the aeroplane developers) a bit of a safety net of some sort to allow them to manage their risks and develop something really good with the new technology over time without going bust. Maybe some sort of advance on sales or something - I’m sure they have a few quid behind the sofa. Companies like a2a who quietly develop amazing software that you can buy and still have the majority of your major organs in situ, let’s make sure they prosper in this brave new world.

I agree with the above too, I really hope that the sort of apps that cost money to do really basic things, or the extremely high prices for the same sort of content that would be free or much cheaper in any other genre, have to disappear or adapt. I do get that there are real people involved in these things, but the current ‘eco-system’ has been heavily influenced by a small customer base, heavily populated by quite a specific demographic that may not get much exposure to what value looks like in the rest of the gaming environment. And I for one hope, that will change. 

All my opinion and I have drank half a bottle of wine. 

[in2tech 588]

1 hour ago, ca_metal said:

 

Like I said, if it was my decision, I would create two inviroments: 

- Curated Store: Microsoft would have a share on the sales and would provide the support for the devs and for the costumers. Minimum quality required. Not allowing all kinds of add-ons (add-ons to improve shadows or colors? It should be done by the base sim).

- Not curated/Sold outside Microsoft's enviroment: Wild-West. Download the SDK and do whatever you want. Costumers using those add-ons have to talk to their devs to get support on them (freeware or payware).

This way we would have support from Microsoft on their own store. I would only buy curated products myself, unless it's a product of really good quality only outside this enviroment.

I like this approach gives the customer the option to choose. Similar to the FSX-SE on Steam. I have no idea what store(s) Microsoft will choose, Microsoft Store, Steam, etc... and others.

Give the customers and the developers several choices. Developers can sell on their products on their sites and take the Whole pie, and also sell on Microsoft Store, Steam, etc... and split the profit.

Advantage is NEW simmers and lazy people like me, get the sim core updates and the add on updates in one place, and can purchase them in one place. I uninstall MSFS 2020 or get a NEW gaming PC. Go to Microsoft Store, Steam, etc... choose the DLC to download, like you can do on Steam, and rock and roll. easy peasy. Well it should be, it is a computer after all 🙂

Developer content from their own website those customers can also rock and roll and reinstall just like they do now, also easy peasy, right?

I would think it would be similar to FSX-SE on Steam, you got your Steam DLC and your 3rd party DLC from outside of Steam, as far as purchasing and getting BRAND NEW add on's. We just don't know how many places it will be yet.

The main thing is you have a CHOICE, and that is what simmers want. I want the curated Microsoft Store, Steam, etc... store so that when I launch the game, everything updates automatically in the background, has been tested for quality control to meet basic standards, etc... And I am sure there will be that MSFS float plane on a 3rd party developers store or market place for me, I hope. 

Of course this is pure speculation. I have no clue. But it is fun to discuss. Microsoft and the 3rd party developers, and the lawyers and all will figure this out for us. What they choose we either like it or we don't. And they could make changes to what they decide also. Getting a NEW MSFS flight simulator that receives automatic updates. I have NEVER experienced that before. I came late to the game in 2009 and it was two updates I think Service pack 1 and 2, and that was it. Never to see an update to the CORE ever again. Well FSX-SE, but you get my point 🙂 How exciting to get updates to the core. I don't even care if it breaks my sim temporarily. I want updates to the core 🙂

[irrics 1,517]

I want whatever is best for MS to be the course they choose.

If the revenue from a curated third party store where they take a cut will make a difference to them in terms of ongoing investment over the years, please do that.

The third party ecosystem outside an official one won't mean much if this is a one and done release for any reason.

 

We will all adjust to what MS ends up doing.

Edited June 21, 2019 by irrics

[diajohn 169]

My hope is we won't worry about add-ons for a long time because the new product will have great airplanes with deep systems and great graphics.  We have all seen the graphics in the preview trailer and an Airbus with a working FMC.  Give me those items and some good GA along with realistic flight dynamics to keep me happy for awhile.  Meanwhile my wallet is given some relief over our current add-ons to make current products somewhat realistic.

[G-RFRY 1,744]

The problem with a steam based MSFS20 will be performance and install size.

[ricka47 620]

13 hours ago, diajohn said:

My hope is we won't worry about add-ons for a long time because the new product will have great airplanes with deep systems and great graphics.  We have all seen the graphics in the preview trailer and an Airbus with a working FMC.  Give me those items and some good GA along with realistic flight dynamics to keep me happy for awhile.  Meanwhile my wallet is given some relief over our current add-ons to make current products somewhat realistic.

Same here - while I have nothing against those in the add on business and have invested heavily in them over the years,  I really want the bulk of what I need (ATC, planning, mapping, weather, traffic) to come from the base sim.  That was not the case when I used FSX or P3D and is not the case with XP11 which is now my main sim.  I currently rely on add ons for ATC, planning, mapping, weather, traffic and probably 90% of my airplanes. 

I want to start the sim, have the base sim and all of its functions updated within the sim and go fly.  It's too darn complicated now and I sometimes avoid flying because I know that I have not updated all of the add ons in a while. 

[Pastaiolo 1,688]

6 hours ago, rjfry said:

The problem with a steam based MSFS20 will be performance and install size.

Care to elaborate? Or maybe you meant streaming based?

[G-RFRY 1,744]

36 minutes ago, france89 said:

Care to elaborate? Or maybe you meant streaming based?

If it`s a full download from steam running it will be down to your hardware capability's, we are not talking FSX:SE here were you can bog it down with addons, or if streamed then I think you will need a game pass to run it even on steam. 

[Pastaiolo 1,688]

48 minutes ago, rjfry said:

If it`s a full download from steam running it will be down to your hardware capability's, we are not talking FSX:SE here were you can bog it down with addons, or if streamed then I think you will need a game pass to run it even on steam. 

I am sorry i didn't understand it yet. There are lots of games on Steam, simulators included, and their performance or size is not affected by Steam itself?