23 minutes ago, vortex681 said:

Not so. You only need to look at modern racing sims to see that complex simulations have already successfully transitioned onto consoles. The best racing sims model aerodynamics accurately (including the effects of damage), all aspects of tyre dynamics (including pressure, grip, temp), changing car weight, changing track temp and surface conditions, weather, AI for single player racing plus many more features. They use the latest PC-compatible controller hardware (FFB wheels) and offer sophisticated online competitions. Current console graphics are not quite up to those available on a PC but all other aspects of the games are the same. There's no reason to think that the next generation of consoles will not be at least as good as a current mid to high end PC so the fact that a game is available for a console will not automatically mean that it's somehow inferior to a PC version.

I agree as far as the internal simulation goes, especially with the beastly specs advertised for the "Scarlett" Xbox in late 2020. And yes, there is a range of steering wheels, shifters, and pedals available for consoles with racing games.

Not so much flight sim hardware though. Just one joystick for the Xbox, I think? Car racing is something gamers can relate to, because everyone can drive a car. So there is a good market for controllers. It's not the same with aviation, a more niche hobby interest than car racing.

So I think the main reason a console might be "inferior" to a PC version of a flight sim, is the degree of support for control inputs and display outputs. For example, right now I'm using hardware that requires five USB connections:

Thrustmaster Warthog joystick
Thrustmaster Warthog throttle quadrant
Saitek Pro Combat rudder pedals
TrackIR
Saitek Multipanel

I could do without the Multipanel, but the rest is my minimum for enjoying a flight sim. Others might need multi-monitor support, VR, or network links to laptops and tablets for nav displays. I've been thinking of re-purposing an old iPad as a GPS/moving map linked to XP11 but haven't got around to it yet.

I think it might be a stretch to assume there will be this level of controller and display support on a console. But we should expect this level of input and output support on the PC version of a flight sim. I think MS is hinting at support for a minimum multi-control setup in their statement on "accessibility," although we'll have to see if that extends to things like TrackIR or multi-display support.

Edited July 8, 20196 yr by Paraffin

It would be kinda fun, if the "FLY NOW" button, would put you in the following situation:

• In a 747
• In a nose dive
• 3000 ft AGL
• In the middle of the Pacific Ocean
• With engines at full throttle.

😄

Edited July 8, 20196 yr by Anders Bermann

@Skywatcher

I really admire your relentlessness and untiring demeanor!

That being said, I think you're currently undertaking the Work of Sisyphos...

Edited July 8, 20196 yr by Anders Bermann

On 7/7/2019 at 5:48 PM, vortex681 said:

Here's the problem with your posts (and which you're accusing others of). You're stating, definitively that it's going to be a game - not that it might be a game, or could possibly just be a game. I

So is almost everyone else... just with opposite meaning, and yet no-one's criticizing that behavior. 

Edited July 8, 20196 yr by Anders Bermann

2 hours ago, Paraffin said:

So I think the main reason a console might be "inferior" to a PC version of a flight sim, is the degree of support for control inputs and display outputs. For example, right now I'm using hardware that requires five USB connections:

Thrustmaster Warthog joystick
Thrustmaster Warthog throttle quadrant
Saitek Pro Combat rudder pedals
TrackIR
Saitek Multipanel

I think that the most the average flight sim enthusiast has is a joystick and maybe a throttle and pedals (but I suspect that even these would be a lot less common than you'd think). There are decent joysticks, throttles and pedals already available for the Xbox One and I'd hazard a guess that MS has probably considered this when looking at the next generation of Xbox (Project Scarlett) - in the past they produced some of the best joysticks available, after all. You can also get USB hubs for the Xbox so the number of connections shouldn't be a problem. As Project Scarlett is expected to be based on the Windows 10 kernel, it could well have generic default drivers which will work with many joysticks and peripherals - my MS FFB2 joystick, CH pedals and Saitek throttle quadrant are all plug-and-play in Windows 10.

Edited July 8, 20196 yr by vortex681

5 minutes ago, Anders Bermann said:

So is almost everyone else... just with opposite meaning, and yet no-one's criticizing that behavior. 

The difference is that most other speculators aren't definitively saying what this will be like Skywatcher did in the post I quoted. I'm all for a bit of creative guesswork but that's all it can possibly be at the moment. He may well prove to be right but, if he is, it'll be more by luck than good judgement because there are no actual facts to base his assumption on.

5 hours ago, vortex681 said:

The difference is that most other speculators aren't definitively saying what this will be like Skywatcher did in the post I quoted. I'm all for a bit of creative guesswork but that's all it can possibly be at the moment. He may well prove to be right but, if he is, it'll be more by luck than good judgement because there are no actual facts to base his assumption on.

Haha, ok, I've been through it all and explained it all.

I did also point out racing sims as a sim exception on console. Every male of any age finds driving a car an attraction and always has. Racing games have and always will exist on any platform. In regards to the racing sims being hardcore on console, I like my F1 and I'm playing F1 Challenge 99-02, others are playing GP4, some are on GPL. Many are still playing RBR or GTR2, it's very widespread because the modern sims are not what you are stating. I haven't tried all the modern sims but things like realistic physics, AI, offline racing, season modes, these types of features have all dropped off. Racing sims are no different to anything else I pointed out, geared to online racing, subscriptions, DLC's and little ability for user content or modification.

You can claim everything I type is BS, you can claim the sim and gaming world today is what it was 20 years ago. You can claim if MSFS turns out to be exactly what I suggest it will be, you can claim I fluked it.

We still won't agree. lol

6 hours ago, Anders Bermann said:

@Skywatcher

I really admire your relentlessness and untiring demeanor!

That being said, I think you're currently undertaking the Work of Sisyphos...

You can only try. lol

6 hours ago, Skywatcher said:

Every male of any age finds driving a car an attraction and always has.

That's strange because I always thought that I'm male. I never was interested in cars or driving, too slow, too 2 dimensional and too boring.

When the commentator during a F1 grand prix gets exited because the racers are reaching 'top' speeds of 300km/h on a long straight, I always think that I can't even fly that slow IRL without dropping out of the sky. 

Btw, most of the pilots I know are driving some cheap/old cars because they couldn't care less about what car they drive.

The vehicle just needs to be sufficient to get them to the airport and back.🙂

 

Edited July 9, 20196 yr by FDEdev

4 hours ago, FDEdev said:

That's strange because I always thought that I'm male. I never was interested in cars or driving, too slow, too 2 dimensional and too boring.

When the commentator during a F1 grand prix gets exited because the racers are reaching 'top' speeds of 300km/h on a long straight, I always think that I can't even fly that slow IRL without dropping out of the sky. 

Btw, most of the pilots I know are driving some cheap/old cars because they couldn't care less about what car they drive.

The vehicle just needs to be sufficient to get them to the airport and back.🙂

 

Can't believe someone comes in and makes a point like yours and even worse, someone then reacts to it! There are no words. lol

Ok, I apologize for being sooooo general. The VAST majority of the male population would find some interest in driving cars and simulating them in one form or another via a gaming environment. You would've struggled to go to any of the old arcades anywhere in the world and not find at least one racing machine. You would also struggle to find one gaming platform of any description of any time period that does not have a racing game in it's game catalogue.

Like I said, there are no words.

11 hours ago, Skywatcher said:

In regards to the racing sims being hardcore on console, I like my F1 and I'm playing F1 Challenge 99-02, others are playing GP4, some are on GPL. Many are still playing RBR or GTR2, it's very widespread because the modern sims are not what you are stating.

You're playing the wrong sims, then (and I did say modern racing sims). For example, the console versions of Assetto Corsa and Project Cars 2 have almost all of those features (perhaps slightly less in the case of PC2). Even F1 2019, which is slightly less hardcore, has many of the features I talked about (worth a look as you're an F1 fan).

Although off-topic, this at least makes the point that console games can be very complex even on the currently available hardware.

Edited July 9, 20196 yr by vortex681

12 minutes ago, vortex681 said:

You're playing the wrong sims, then (and I did say modern racing sims). For example, the console versions of Assetto Corsa and Project Cars 2 have almost all of those features (perhaps slightly less in the case of PC2). Even F1 2019, which is slightly less hardcore, has many of the features I talked about (worth a look as you're an F1 fan).

Although off-topic, this at least makes the point that console games can be very complex even on the currently available hardware.

I wish to race offline. I like to do seasons and race against AI. From what I recall, none of those sims have both a season option that you can tailor AI times for racing to be competitive nor do they have great AI to race against? Correct me if I am wrong and I will take a look at what you recommend. We are talking F1 here too.

6 hours ago, FDEdev said:

When the commentator during a F1 grand prix gets exited because the racers are reaching 'top' speeds of 300km/h on a long straight, I always think that I can't even fly that slow IRL without dropping out of the sky. 
 

Did you pass basic arithmetic at school. 300Km/hr is 186mph. If you're 'dropping out of the sky' at that speed you're doing something very wrong.

Why people are now talking about driving in a Flight sim forum? I'm completely lost 

 

MS, we definitely need new info.

Edited July 9, 20196 yr by aleex

1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Did you pass basic arithmetic at school. 300Km/hr is 186mph. If you're 'dropping out of the sky' at that speed you're doing something very wrong.

I'm absolutely loving it when airmchair pilots are making claims with zero knowledge what they are talking about and they are insulting at the same time.

Although these two, what a surprise, go hand in hand quite often as has just been demonstrated by Ray.   

FYI, 300km/h equals 162kts (nobody uses mph in aviation to measure airspeed since a few decades).

Again, at this low speed I don't even think about rotation in a heavy 767-300ER. 

 

Edited July 9, 20196 yr by FDEdev