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Jeff Nielsen

No "DVD check" please!

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Guest davidvoogd

This is just a small request for the FS Devs if they happen to read it to please consider (if it's within your control) not requiring us to place the DVD in the drive to use the program. This method of antipiracy has been around for ages and I'm sure everyone knows it doesn't work, it's an annoyance to legitimate customers, and many of us are driven to hunt down a cd crack that we hope doesn't contain spyware to preserve our cd/dvd drives from burning out (which I've had happen a few times).I'd even prefer the windows / office style activation to the cd/dvd check.

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Guest Danno

Ya, my CD 4 is pretty messed up after two years of daily "in and out" too.

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If it comes to it, keep the CD check but don't, under any circumstance, opt for an activation scheme. We have enough trouble already reinstalling the payware addons - we don't need, on top of that, to call MS every time we want to reinstall. It's simple for me, if it requires activation I won't buy it.Doug

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I agree with you David, it would be nice to get rid of the CD check, but I'm not sure about doing the activation thing. The thing is, I don't thing the CD check does much to stop piracy anyway, since there are No CD cracks available. I think it does more to annoy the honest people than anything else.

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Guest davidvoogd

That's the thing, the cd cracks are out within a couple of days after release, so why waste the time writing the cd check code, and waste everyones time having to put the cd in or hunt down a crack. As for the activation I mainly made the remark to indicate how much the cd check annoys me, I would prefer not to have the activation either.

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I'm afraid some type of piracy protection has to be in place. It has to spare our hardware more wear and tear, it has to allow for the constant hardware upgrading many simmers perform, but it has to protect Microsoft. Any ideas on how that can be accomplished?I myself prefer one time lock/key code activation. If a lock/key code combo shows up on the web, nine times out of ten a pirate is nailed. Lago used to go as far as to put code into their code that tracked circulated key codes, and zapped their software from working if the key code appeared on a suspected pirate list.Someone may complain about losing their lock/key combo, but some ownership of backing up registration info has to be maintained if we're to rid ourselves of the cursed DVD/CD based copy protection.-John

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Guest

If you pay Microsoft the purchase price for every pirated copy out there and put that in writing signed in your own blood I'm sure they'll consider it.

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Guest davidvoogd

But that's the whole point - why should I have to pay for the software piracy. I like John's idea, and many games do use that though they also still force you to put the disc in the drive. One problem with that which I have experienced myself is that the software pirates have programs that generate random keycodes, and I've actually had it where someone stole my keycode.I bought the program, and right after I installed it and went to play online, it said my keycode was already in use! I contacted EA and asked for help but I never got it, it was incredibly frustrating. So unfortunately that system isn't perfect, and I don't think any system can be. But that doesn't mean that we as a consumer should be the ones punished.Perhaps the best system I've seen is the one used for World of Warcraft where your serial code is tied to your username and password. That's pretty hard to get around, but World of Warcraft is an online game, so if that was used for FSX it would require everyone to have access to the internet which for some would be an issue.Either way putting the CD/DVD in is ineffective, they've tried that since I bought my first PC in 1997 (bought FS98 2 days before the PC when I saw it on the shelves at the computer store). So lets at least stop wearing out our CD/DVD drives and try something else.

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"Perhaps the best system I've seen is the one used for World of Warcraft where your serial code is tied to your username and password. That's pretty hard to get around, but World of Warcraft is an online game, so if that was used for FSX it would require everyone to have access to the internet which for some would be an issue."That hasn't stopped Half Life 2 from selling like hot cakes.Chris Low.

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I have no problem with anti-piracy measures, however only if they are effective. The problem is that many of these options simply do not work at all, and serve no purpose other than to annoy legitimate paying customers. -leaving cd in the tray? - easy to get around-cd key authentication? - somewhat effective, but often works against legit customers while allowing the pirates to do their thing. Let me tell a brief story about cd key authentication:I'm sure some people here have played battlefield 1942 (or at least have heard of it). It is an online game where you need a unique cd key to join servers. Before the game was released, I played the free demo and liked the game. I went down to my local EB World and pre-ordered a copy. Release day comes and I drive to the store. I pick up my shrink wrapped copy sitting behind the counter. Nobody other than the store clerks had access. I run home, install and start playing. About a week later, I try to play online, and I get the message "cd-key in use". Now, I can't play the game that I purchased. I have to contact their support, e-mail them copies of my old cd key and cd case, and wait another week for them to send me another key. I never gave my cd key to anyone, so it was likely generated by some pirate program. If you think this is an isolated incident, I've had it happen with other games as well. One game I purchased new and didn't realize that the bottom of the box had been carefully cut open. Someone had bought it and returned it, or simply opened it up in the store, stolen the key, and replaced the box on the shelf. That gets me to another pet peeve of cd keys: retailers. Retailers should not allow people to return opened software, especially if there is a cd key. However I know of lots of stores that still do this.

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Guest mtlmtl

What about the newer type of anti-piracy measure that uses a device you need to plug into you USB port. Looks about like a keychain USB storage device, but you can't use your software unless the USB device is plugged in. This not only makes owners register their software but makes them need to in case they lose the device. Very difficult to pirate the USB device. Only seeing this type of protection on software in the $100's to $1000's price range, but expect to see it for more software in the future.Matt

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Guest

Those devices have also been cracked...The price of these things makes them prohibitive for cheaper products, and the fact that you need many of them (and they quite often conflict with one another) makes them impractical for machines that are not used for a single specific purpose.Hardware protection like that has been in existence for at least 15 years, and cracked for almost as long.In fact I've worked in an environment where they used a cracked version (with permission from the software company no less) of one package because safety regulations (explosion hazard) made using the hardware device on several of their workstations illegal (the workstations themselves were specially certified for use in a lab where there was an explosion hazard).

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Guest

The system used by MMORPGs works because you're paying for a subscription to the software.I agree that it works but I doubt many of the punters would willingly accept a pay per view model for MSFS.Pay $50 for the DVD and then another $10 per month. Online play on MSN Zone required to use the software (simply requiring online validation before you can start the game doesn't work, you could still "share" your account with a thousand others and they could all start it as long as it wasn't at the exact moment you click the application launcher).Don't think it would fly really...

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Guest

No system is completely secure except a subscription service based on an ASP model where the software is never installed on the customer machine at all but runs on the service provider's machines and only the results are returned to the client to be displayed by some sort of application launcher.That's not a system that's really suitable for a heavily moddable environment like MSFS as there'd be no way to install those mods and addons.I agree that retailers should not accept returned opened software packages unless the customer can show that the product was damaged on delivery (I had that twice, CDs that had were shattered in the box).In fact I've never seen a store that did accept returns under any other condition (except once, but I'd been a steady customer there for several years and was returning the product within an hour of purchase because it failed to even install, something we managed to replicate on their machines).

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Guest Bell206freak

I agree.. There should be a way so that users of the next release of Flight Simulator don't require the DVD or installation media to remain in the drive bay at all times when the sim is in use.When I first installed Flight Simulator 2004, I quickly became annoyed by the fact that disk 4 "had to be in there" to make the sim run. As a result, I quickly began a search for a no-cd patch. When I found the first one, I immediately downloaded it and needless to say, I've been flying with the absence of disk #4 ever since.The main reason why I disagree is that often, while I am immersing myself in Flight Simulator, I may also have other tasks such as burning music or data onto CDs, or listening to music (which I don't do on a regular basis). The point is that we should not have to have to face aggravated, premature wear on our components and we should also have the freedom to multitask and use that particular CD or DVD rewritable drive at will when we are also simultaneously flying within Flight Simulator.

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Guest

The largescale acceptance of piracy as justified by consumers is the cause for draconian protection schemes.If consumers take an active stance against piracy themselves and don't engage in it (as users of pirated property and by supplying property to pirates) there is no further need for such measures.But since consumers seem disinclined to obey the law software creators (and other creators of intellectual property) have no recourse but to defend themselves and their lifelihood in any way they can.

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Guest davidvoogd

I had the exact problem you did with BF1942 except for me it was BF-Vietnam. EA wouldn't even help me out with a new serial code, it really ###### me off. My CD case was totally sealed though so it was more likely a random key generator that caused mine to be taken. BF2 worked fine at least.

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Guest bobsk8

>I agree.. There should be a way so that users of the next>release of Flight Simulator don't require the DVD or>installation media to remain in the drive bay at all times>when the sim is in use.>>When I first installed Flight Simulator 2004, I quickly became>annoyed by the fact that disk 4 "had to be in there" to make>the sim run. As a result, I quickly began a search for a no-cd>patch. When I found the first one, I immediately downloaded it>and needless to say, I've been flying with the absence of disk>#4 ever since.>>The main reason why I disagree is that often, while I am>immersing myself in Flight Simulator, I may also have other>tasks such as burning music or data onto CDs, or listening to>music (which I don't do on a regular basis). >>The point is that we should not have to have to face>aggravated, premature wear on our components and we should>also have the freedom to multitask and use that particular CD>or DVD rewritable drive at will when we are also>simultaneously flying within Flight Simulator.I did the same thing. Bottom line, I paid for the program and am a legitimate user, and don't see why I have jump though hoops because there are dishonest people in the world. I also don't feel like loading my DVD drive every night.

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Before I left my job in retail to learn to fly, we sold a number of laptops which had FS9 pre-installed on them. It didn't require the CD to be in the drive to start up. (I made numerous flights on the display model :( )

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I think we should go back to using a wheel to line up some codes. If not that, then looking up a specific word on a specific page, paragraph, and sentence in the manual. What? No manual! Then use the wheel code method!!Hope this helps,Jimhttp://www.hifisim.comhttp://sales.hifisim.com/pub-download/asv6...development.jpg http://sales.hifisim.com/pub-download/asv6-banner-proud.jpg


http://www.jdtllc.com/images/rcv4bannersupporter.jpg

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Guest

at the software company I worked for a few years ago, we refused to use copy protection. The reason? Because people are going to pirate something no matter what you do. So why waste time and money to create a system that does nothing but annoy the paying customers?Everything can be cracked, there is no way around it. So just accept it, and work hard to make a game that is so good, people would want to go purchase it as a way of thanking the company and making sure more development happens in the next version.

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Guest

Depending on the target market you may not need it.But in the entertainment market (where MSFS is marketed) with its ratio of pirated software reaching 90% for most titles and almost 100% for those with no protection it's vital.If 10% of your userbase makes up all your sales you can't afford to lose that 10% because you failed to protect your product, you may as well close shop.Now in the market the company I work is situated in that problem isn't as big by far.Not only are our customers lawyers and collection agencies (a group of people a lot closer to the law than kids in their bedrooms or students in their dorms), but the products are so highly customised to each individual customer that they're just about impossible to use by others.In that world piracy protection is indeed not needed.

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Guest Paul Heaney

So what your saying, is that Almost everyone in these forums, will Pirate FSX, If it had no copy protection at all?I think your thinking is seriously flawed.I for one, will be more than happy to purchase it, the day it comes out, Even IF it's on the Internet, because I use FS9 Just about every day. To me, it's money well spent, and you'll find a majority of the population here, agree with me.However, Copy Protection, especially that Starforce crap, annoy the heck outta me. Why should I waste a DVD Drive, with the disk inserted, every time I want to load it up? I paid for it, I own it, so why do I have to suffer, because of it?And yes, there will be ways around that as well, Just like there already is, for dang near every game title on the market, right now.I'm betting that most people here, are using a No CD FS9.EXE right now. Doesn't mean they didn't buy it.

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Guest JSPuonti

Funny you should mention StarForce - I really hope Microsoft won't be using it or any similar protections on FSX, because it's one of the things I do not allow on my computer. Sort of like the Sony rootkit DRM package; why on earth would I want to install something that degrades my computer's overall performance without any added benefit to myself?I'd still buy the game to feel good about using it, but no doubt I'd use "alternate media" to install it without StarForce.

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