A stunning preview today but we are still in the dark for...

[rhumbaflappy 113]

12 hours ago, HighTowers said:

The key to that audio interview is that they are really committed to listening to what the community wants.

Of course, if it ships without seasons or Ai or ATC, then Microsoft can just blame the simming community for not speaking up, shifting the blame away from themselves for not doing the right thing.

[Dominique_K 10,150]

10 minutes ago, rhumbaflappy said:

Of course, if it ships without seasons or Ai or ATC, then Microsoft can just blame the simming community for not speaking up, shifting the blame away from themselves for not doing the right thing.

I expect a petition on change.org anytime now

[F737MAX 5,608]

3 hours ago, rhumbaflappy said:

Of course, if it ships without seasons or Ai or ATC, then Microsoft can just blame the simming community for not speaking up, shifting the blame away from themselves for not doing the right thing.

3 hours ago, domkle said:

I expect a petition on change.org anytime now

Nah, that's old skool.

If we don't get seasons, new AI and ATC engines, then I'm A gOnNa ThRoW a MiLkShAkE aT sOmEoNe.

[ckyliu 1,749]

Engine simulation is an area FSX really lacked in and something we've yet to really hear about for the new sim. Turboprops are infamously abysmal and only cover free-turbine type, piston engines omit common issues like carb icing, spark plug fouling, vapour lock and EGT behaviour when leaning is odd, turbines don't have hot start problems, the relationship between N1 and N2 is flawed... You get the picture. Some of those characteristics can have a big impact on your flying and how you handle the aircraft, as anyone who's had an A2A will know,so it would be nice to see them naively in the sim 

[LHookins 3,103]

1 hour ago, ckyliu said:

piston engines omit common issues like carb icing

Say WHAT!?  Funny, it's happened to me a lot.  And prop icing as well.  I used to see this a lot in the stock Goose.  Plus four forced landings so far due to airframe icing, the first in the Goose back with Jeppesen weather before I got Active Sky.  Latest was with the MJ C-47 in P3Dv4.

I've coded my own spark plug fouling. 😄  I only fly piston planes, preferably rotary engines.

Hook

[ErichB 3,643]

13 hours ago, Ops Normal said:

I have used bing maps to research many parts of sub Saharan Africa and they are pretty detailed. A bit old but hi-res enough. If the dev team boast of VFR flying every where, then am not worried. As a current flight instructor in the southern parts of Africa i cant wait for the sim so i can use my 1:500000 VFR charts for navigation and possible teach my students a thing or two about map to ground reading. I do agree with OSJJ1985 it will be miles ahead of whats available now.

I'm looking forward to seeing the Okavango Delta in the sim

[Dominique_K 10,150]

7 hours ago, ckyliu said:

Engine simulation is an area FSX really lacked in and something we've yet to really hear about for the new sim. Turboprops are infamously abysmal and only cover free-turbine type, piston engines omit common issues like carb icing, spark plug fouling, vapour lock and EGT behaviour when leaning is odd, turbines don't have hot start problems, the relationship between N1 and N2 is flawed... You get the picture. Some of those characteristics can have a big impact on your flying and how you handle the aircraft, as anyone who's had an A2A will know,so it would be nice to see them naively in the sim 

Agreed, let us hope that the FS20 team works early with A2A, Majestic etc to improve engine modeling. I’d also love to see ole Rob Young being a consultant with them. He did an outstanding job on the T-Duke !

On a side note, if I remember well I had carb icing on my A2A FSX (pure FSX not the P3D version) aircraft, and flame out and ice building on window when flying in icing conditions on my old L-39 jet trainer which also is pure FSX.

 

[FDEdev 955]

7 hours ago, ckyliu said:

 ...the relationship between N1 and N2 is flawed... You get the picture. 

That's new to me since N1/N2 relationship has it's own table in the air file.

[peroni 541]

Can we safely say that a pc based on a 9700k with an RTX 2080 (or AMD equivalents) will be abundant to run the sim at 4K resolution with at least 30 fps on a single screen?

Those components should be cheaper by the time FS2020 is released.

 

 

[ckyliu 1,749]

59 minutes ago, FDEdev said:

That's new to me since N1/N2 relationship has it's own table in the air file.

Should've clarified that's during start up afaik. I'm by no means an expert but many devs moan about the engine simulation.

Edited October 2, 2019 by ckyliu

[FDEdev 955]

1 hour ago, ckyliu said:

Should've clarified that's during start up afaik. I'm by no means an expert but many devs moan about the engine simulation.

Nope. Works during startup a well.

[LHookins 3,103]

3 hours ago, ckyliu said:

Should've clarified that's during start up afaik. I'm by no means an expert but many devs moan about the engine simulation.

You're a pretty sharp guy, but you need to be careful which "experts" you believe and it might be better not to post their opinions as your own.

I've heard a lot of complaints about turbine engines but I know nothing about them so I can't comment.  I've also heard a lot of complaints about various icing problems and I've researched those extensively myself and most of it is that-which-is-not-so. 

You'll still find a few people adamantly claiming that icing isn't modeled in FSX, and most people claim that whatever modeled is wrong.  It may be simplified a bit but you can fly for about 10 minutes in freezing rain and if you aren't on the ground in 15 minutes you will be in 20.  Trace and light icing gives you maybe 3 to 4 times those numbers but in general you don't spend much time accumulating ice in that condition and it dissipates about as quickly.  I've done a lot of reading of pilots' memoirs and what I see in the sim is what they describe.

I will be very interested to see how MSFS compares after all my research.

Hook

[eslader 1,784]

I've had carb icing issues a number of times, but I've never seen airframe icing. And not for lack of trying. Awhile back I intentionally loaded up the weather that was present when a local pilot crashed immediately after takeoff due to icing, and flew around in it for half an hour, and didn't accumulate one speck of ice on the wings or anywhere else, and the plane flew as though it were a nice clear day.

If I recall, there was one plane back in FSX or maybe 2004 (and I don't remember which one because I'm old) that would show ice buildup, but it was only visual. Flight wasn't effected.

 

[ckyliu 1,749]

Agreed @LHookins, perhaps I look a bit foolish now! So I'd like to take the opportunity to clarify (or should that be rant?) based on my first hand experience of many "flakey" elements to FSX/P3D engine simulation, rather than paraphrasing others:

• @FDEdev to clarify my point on N1/N2 during start, it's the "surge" you get during start up where the engine shoots beyond normal idle values, it should just smoothly spool up to idle after fuel is introduced, although ITT/EGT will have a big peak. There's no penalty for introducing fuel too early during the start either, in real life you could get a hot start or even fire from that.
• There is carb icing but the onset is far slower than real life, also using carb heat doesn't result in a reduction in RPM/power you would see in reality (A2A got it right in their stuff though). Also you can get carb icing on fuel injected engines, so we're reliant on developers saying the aircraft has carb heat that's on all the time, DOH! As far as I know you don't get inlet icing on turbines engines.
• Leaning behaviour is suspect, EGT behaves correctly but its relationship with fuel flow I think is a bit "wonky" and you can't really lean by ear. I also think you lean far more aggressively in FSX/P3D than in reality. I'm not going to talk about LoP/RoP because that's the oldest argument going in general aviation 🤣
• There is no spark plug fouling, whereas irl with the ubiquitous Lycoming O series on the ground you have to lean the mixture and idle above nominal RPM, periodically opening the throttle more to burn the lead off which is visible as smoke, otherwise the engine starts running very lumpily and the mag check goes badly!
• There doesn't appear to be any need to prime piston engines or crack open the throttle to start them.
• The behaviour of constant speed propellers when adjusting RPM is very jerky and I don't recall seeing the oil pressure drop you would associate with cycling the prop condition lever. And the sounds aren't right, if you change the manifold pressure and prop RPM stays the same, the sounds shouldn't change in pitch significantly. Most contact speed props will also semi-autofeather themselves as oil drains away from the hub, you don't see that in sim unless a developer has fudged it in.
• Behaviour of reverse pitch/thrust is also a jerky mess with odd fuel flow values. There is essentially no simulation of beta range or the braking effect fine propeller pitch causes (Majestic's Q400 got around this by simulating all this outside FSX/P3D. But that shouldn't be necessary in my opinion, it's quite basic behaviour for most props).
• Geared turboprops (TPE331 etc) are simply not simulated at all. Some devs have managed to fudge it but it's still not ideal.
• I appreciate this is a rarity these days, but there is no simulation of turbine power restoratives such as water or water methanol injection.
   
• Whilst icing is present in FSX/P3D an atmosphere layer is simply assigned as having ice without regard to moisture, you can get icing when well clear of cloud and rain in the sim, so long as SAT is below 0 (there's a gauge you can drop into panels to see what FSX ice is doing). I've seen FSX ice block unheated pitot tubes but I've never seen it have an effect on the aerodynamics or weight, outside a few of the top line addon aircraft, apparently FSX will slowly add weight and reduce propeller efficiency but the effects are grossly down played. And there is no visual effect, in real life the classic tell tale sign is the windscreen wiper spindles (if your aircraft has them). And apparently the de-ice/anti-ice switches in FSX/P3D default aircraft are dummies, although the sim does support the air files have to be setup for this.
• Use of bleed air systems on turbines doesn't seem to impact EGT or reduce performance. Typical there would be a small penalty for using bleed air de icing (that's before we consider air con packs), in the case of some turboprops the impact is very significant.

Thus far nothing has been said about engine simulation and I'm hoping all the above are fixed/simulated because it really can impact on how you operate the aircraft. At least the dual magneto simulation is accurate!

Edited October 2, 2019 by ckyliu

[Dominique_K 10,150]

Just now, ckyliu said:

 

You look only foolish when you use capital letters, multiple exclamation marks and the like 😁...

Seriously, this an excellent introduction to all these issues that would deserve IMO its own thread.