VR Inclusion in MSFS

[adamv1 25]

Quite an active forum, the news about no VR at launch was 2 days ago and already this forum is over 9 pages. I would like to add my 2 cents as a VR user. 

I have all the desktop equipment for flight simulation in 2d flat screen and 3d VR. Right now my 2d simulation experience is dead, I just don't use it anymore. I never thought I would be a fan of X-plane until I got a taste of their implementation of VR. Now I am fully 100% an x-plane user. I removed my copy of P3D because it's VR implementation was just bad and I had probably $1000 worth of add on scenery and aircraft, I haven't looked back. 

Why did I do this? First, the biggest problem I always had in 2d flight simming was looking around the cockpit. If I'm on approach to an airport, I want to be able to look for that 45 degree angle behind the wing and keep my eyes open for traffic. In VR this is natural and instant, in 2d it's awkward and slow. 

Second, I actually fly real planes, and I want to be able to train on the actual equipment I use. In VR i can do this. With the upcoming oculus hand tracking through the rift quest update this might become even more natural. In VR i reach for things and they are right where i expect them to be. If I want to replicate this in 2d I need to build a cockpit, buy thousands of dollars in equipment and dedicate a ton of space to replicating the environment. In VR I just need rudder peddles and my hands. If I don't want to fly a cessna I can switch to a 737 and everything is where i expect it to be, in a 2d cockpit, flying a 737 with cessna controls is a bit strange and certainly not natural. 

Third and final thing, nothing is more natural than actually being in the cockpit of the plane you are flying. Even level D training simulators don't feel quite as real as VR. It's this level of immersion that made me love VR. When I look back in a cessna 172, I am looking at the back seat and out the back window, in a 737 I am looking back into the passenger compartment, if i stick my head out the window I see the aircraft with my own eyes as if i am there. I'm not looking at a picture of an airplane on a screen, I am in that airplane, isn't that why we got into flight simulation?

 

[vortex681 806]

35 minutes ago, nickhod said:

I can't help but wonder if, when people say, "I tried VR and it made me feel sick / dizzy", they're trying X-Plane or FSX and getting 25fps VR with asynchronous timewarp kicking in all the time.

I also tried it in DCS with exactly the same result (at much higher framerates).

[adamv1 25]

With DCS, it's almost a requirement to have VR these days. I don't know many regulars that aren't using it. If you are getting sick in VR, that sucks. I couldn't imagine going back to 2d, especially in DCS, I would feel severely disadvantaged. 

[Thac 29]

This is insane!

All this amazing new tech and no VR? I am extremely disappointed (even mad and word not allowed). All my excitement for MSFS2020 is now gone. I cannot go back to flat 2D monitor. The sim is now dead to me.

[irrics 1,517]

Asobo - We gotta have VR in the new MSFS. 

There are lots of us that will be on the sidelines until that is a reality. 

I also think it’s particularly important if the plan is actually to grow the flight simulation user base beyond flying diehards and down into the younger ranks. 

 

Edited October 1, 2019 by irrics

[mpo910 2,112]

1 hour ago, SierraDelta said:

... and 49 (out of 218 at the time of your post) of those replies were from you 😉 Yes, I counted them

That is not relevant. Do you really think they JUSt and ONLY looked at AVSIM requests and directly prioritized it up? I don´t think so. Actually a lot more has to be evaluated to make this decissions (Business Case/Business Model/Revenue and Margin). 

It is a pitty that users don´t respect each other and make such a point of it. 

I only requested something called VR and stated why I would like it in the sim en WHY. I am repeating myself here. Others also chimed here. And you could at least know that because you counted them and hopefully read them too.

I did NOT decide what comes first.

There is also a reason why X Plane and P3D, Flyinside and all others do implement it. This numbers people here a reffering to are in no way a Benchmark measure.......Maybe (good( surveys....

I would also want seasons.....at release (also repeating here).

Regards Marcus

 

[Rivet 16]

I am only jumping in here because the folks who are developing Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 have clearly stated that they are reading the forums and listening as they continue to develop the product. I am certainly not trying to convince others of my views or positions and I fully believe it is ultimately the developer who can best determine their priorities based on time, costs, resources and a myriad of other factors. 

I was a little saddened, in the midst of much excitement with the new announcements regarding Microsoft Flight Simulator, about the initial exclusion of VR. I still remain optimistic that these comments were about the launch and that there is some degree of hope that this may ultimately be included in the product. In my 35 years of being involved in flight simulation I have been fortunate to experience many key advancements in both software and hardware. For me, one of the pivotal moments was introduction of VR into simulation. Even though I had long been a user of large screen monitors, trackIR and many other peripherals, VR was, in my eyes, a substantial move forward in everything I wanted from a flight simulator experience. It has inspired me to go ahead a purchase the highest end spec PC, a cockpit, new high quality peripherals and haptic devices to continue to further that VR experience. As much as I am thrilled about the highly innovative and hugely impressive features I have seen in the recent videos of the new Microsoft Flight Simulator I still feel that using that software on a 2D monitor will fall well short of the incredibly immersive, visceral and thrilling experience I had this morning taking off from the cockpit of a 40,000 lb. jet in DCS in VR (I am sure others will feel differently). Of course the marriage of presence, immersiveness and feel of my present environment with the incredible features being demonstrated by Microsoft (Asobo) would be fantastic. It is my hope that Microsoft will add VR support sooner rather than later and that other VR flight vendors will be spurred on to continue to add innovative features to their products.

[Kilo60 660]

1 hour ago, Thac said:

This is insane!

All this amazing new tech and no VR? I am extremely disappointed (even mad and word not allowed). All my excitement for MSFS2020 is now gone. I cannot go back to flat 2D monitor. The sim is now dead to me.

You shouldn’t be surprised as this is going to be an Xbox release as well.

 

VR and Xbox mix like oil and water currently!!!

[irrics 1,517]

@Rivet

Really well articulated.

I'm watching all these YouTube videos of the new MSFS on my 65" TV and realizing that "this is basically it" for 2D.

The only difference would be that I'm controlling the action, but it would still be on this (to me) now very tired and static flat screen experience, even with the new graphics.  It just isn't that exciting to me anymore (flat screen sims).

 

I had so hoped that a truly fresh start for MSFS in the modern age would "obviously!" be VR inclusive.

 

Once you go VR for flight sim, there simply is no going back.

I was sold literally on my first takeoff.  It was so so SO much more real, it was mind blowing.

I spent hours upon hours flying helicopters around on my first day in VR flight sim.  

It was unbelievably engaging in a way that's simply impossible to match with flat screens.

Edited October 1, 2019 by irrics

[mpo910 2,112]

Just now, Kilo60 said:

You shouldn’t be surprised as this is going to be an Xbox release as well.

 

VR and Xbox mix like oil and water currently!!!

Why do you think? Could it not be possible to implement VR and leaving "open" if it becomes a feature in XBox? And also I strong believe that the MOST users of MSFS 2020 will not "Simulate" with a controller on XBox! Or do you really think that? 

[mpo910 2,112]

4 minutes ago, Rivet said:

I am only jumping in here because the folks who are developing Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 have clearly stated that they are reading the forums and listening as they continue to develop the product. I am certainly not trying to convince others of my views or positions and I fully believe it is ultimately the developer who can best determine their priorities based on time, costs, resources and a myriad of other factors. 

I was a little saddened, in the midst of much excitement with the new announcements regarding Microsoft Flight Simulator, about the initial exclusion of VR. I still remain optimistic that these comments were about the launch and that there is some degree of hope that this may ultimately be included in the product. In my 35 years of being involved in flight simulation I have been fortunate to experience many key advancements in both software and hardware. For me, one of the pivotal moments was introduction of VR into simulation. Even though I had long been a user of large screen monitors, trackIR and many other peripherals, VR was, in my eyes, a substantial move forward in everything I wanted from a flight simulator experience. It has inspired me to go ahead a purchase the highest end spec PC, a cockpit, new high quality peripherals and haptic devices to continue to further that VR experience. As much as I am thrilled about the highly innovative and hugely impressive features I have seen in the recent videos of the new Microsoft Flight Simulator I still feel that using that software on a 2D monitor will fall well short of the incredibly immersive, visceral and thrilling experience I had this morning taking off from the cockpit of a 40,000 lb. jet in DCS in VR (I am sure others will feel differently). Of course the marriage of presence, immersiveness and feel of my present environment with the incredible features being demonstrated by Microsoft (Asobo) would be fantastic. It is my hope that Microsoft will add VR support sooner rather than later and that other VR flight vendors will be spurred on to continue to add innovative features to their products.

Well written. Also I found it a "game changer". Sim is immersion.....VR is immersion.

[vortex681 806]

43 minutes ago, irrics said:

There are lots of us that will be on the sidelines until that is a reality. 

Sorry to say it, but if every VR flight sim user boycotts the new sim on release, I don't think that it will significantly affect sales.

45 minutes ago, irrics said:

I also think it’s particularly important if the plan is actually to grow the flight simulation user base beyond flying diehards and down into the younger ranks.

I don't think that most younger players would be particularly worried about whether or not games have VR support for 3 reasons:

1 - most of them don't currently use VR.

2 - most younger players can't afford VR (neither the headset nor the hardware needed to run it).

3 - most of the games they currently play don't need VR.

[irrics 1,517]

I simply want Asobo to know that there ARE many of us out here who've tasted enough VR to know that we're never going back, no matter what the scenery/visuals look like.

The immersion is not replicable by a 2d/screen experience, and it simply is "boring" once you've gotten far enough into VR.

Edited October 1, 2019 by irrics

[Kilo60 660]

5 minutes ago, vortex681 said:

Sorry to say it, but if every VR flight sim user boycotts the new sim on release, I don't think that it will significantly affect sales.

I don't think that most younger players would be particularly worried about whether or not games have VR support for 3 reasons:

1 - most of them don't currently use VR.

2 - most younger players can't afford VR (neither the headset nor the hardware needed to run it).

3 - most of the games they currently play don't need VR.

Absolutely right!

 

As long as you can fly with an Xbox controller they would be more than happy!

[stratosfeerick 31]

Second all of @Adamv1's points. But agree that the VR userbase may be too small right now for MS to prioritise it in the initial release. I recall a recent X-Plane poll finding that around 5% of users fly in VR. Also, regarding VR sickness - I notice that I am way more prone to this in small aircraft than in the bigger jets. I figure it's that smaller planes move around more. I also got sick when the frames were very low, so that's definitely another cause.