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nickhod

VR Inclusion in MSFS

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I think if you consider Microsoft's decision to hold off on VR in the greater context of its other product lines, especially with the XBox, it explains a lot.  There's a history there, and not a great one from their perspective.

https://www.cnet.com/news/heres-what-happened-to-microsofts-xbox-vr-gaming-headset/

I think they're probably adopting a wait-and-see approach before jumping in--wait-and-see if the next or one-after-next generation of VR headsets gain more widespread popularity, and wait-and-see if VR as a whole goes the way of the 3D TV or the Kinect--innovative, but never capturing enough attention from the bulk of the consumer base to justify pursuing it further.

 


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3 hours ago, chass32 said:

It has no sense to have the most amazing and innovative flightsim in 2020 with no VR. No sense at all.

For me, like many others here, there´s no way back to flat screen.

Exactly !!!!   Same here,  there´s NO way back to flat screen    👍

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Hamilton Müller

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2 hours ago, mpo910 said:

Me neither. Just a part of the sim community who wants VR implemented. As one of the hundreds of wishes here on avsim stated.....not more and not less

Me neither too!


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1 hour ago, TechguyMaxC said:

It's an over-reaction for the reasons I already stated.  You're reacting as though MS have stated "there will be no VR in MSFS".  They haven't done that.  All they've said is that it's not there right now, and they'll look at adding features later.  

Really? Check out this video: 

"no VR would not be in there at launch MAYBE later on that´s perhaps a longer term goal..."

 

 

Edited by hmuller
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Hamilton Müller

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Just like Dirt rally 2.0, no VR no buy I'm afraid the immersion with VR and a 6DOF simulator is something that is just perfect. (I bought Dirt 2.0 as soon as VR was released)

Please Microsoft at least put it on your road map 🙂

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1 hour ago, hmuller said:

Really? Check out this video: 

"no VR would not be in there at launch MAYBE later on that´s perhaps a longer term goal..."

 

 

 

The quote you've cited is the reason I have confidence that VR will probably make it into the sim at some point.  

Where's the disconnect here?

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Hmmmm..... I just noticed the moving cars were floating in the air above the road.

Nothing's perfect.

And that sort of thing would be REALLY glaring in vr, where depth perception is king.


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I applaud the the direction Microsoft is going with FS2020, although I am sad that VR will not be implemented in the final release--if ever. Considering the fact that  "Holo Tour" was the genesis of FS2020, The Asobo team, most likely, has already evaluated VR.  Hear the statement from Jorg Neumann, Head of Microsoft Flight Simulator below @ 2:37.

The true question as to why Microsoft are not releasing VR is what I would like to know. Could it be performance issues, or incompatibility with the graphics engine? The MS2020 project reportedly started five years ago, which was before before Microsoft released their take on VR--and before it could be properly integrated into the sim. This is understandable--maybe a future iteration?

Will there be a path forward without having to refactor the entire sim and interface? Will Microsoft move the sim to DX12 or Vulcan and implement VR? I suspect that the Fly Inside developer will at least attempt to get something working. Not ideal, but I will take it.

My worst fear is that Microsoft will drop the ball on VR all-together. We have unfortunately seen this behavior somewhere before. Are you still in the VR game Microsoft? Don't be like your former self, only to admit you're were wrong in the future. 

I can accept if VR is not ready at this time for the following reasons:

  • Performance is poor for the majority of VR users.
  • It will never be implemented and Microsoft lets us know. The team answers the VR question as a future consideration, but it is not at all convincing. I hope they have figured out whether it is possible or not. The Flight Sim World team alluded to the same thing, so I mistakenly bought it based on hope. My bad. 

I cannot accept if VR is not ready at this time for the following reasons:

  • If Microsoft is not being truthful that they will never implement VR and choose string us along. This is a tactic that some in charge employ to avoid immediate customer disappointment, the expense of rage later down the line--It is a poor trade. Microsoft, please live up to your new-found promise of transparency and integrity.

I posit that some VR simmers(myself included) are a new breed of hard-core simmer on steroids. We mainline VR for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Are you the one Neo?

Have we become Children of the Corn, striking dread and loathing in every new sim developer's heart, instead of the hard-core simmers of the past? Will the now formally shunned hard-core simmers come to our defense, or dismiss our passion since their wants are now being satisfied? 

Why VR in MS2020:

Maybe we can try to persuade and convince other potential users why we think VR should be implemented in MS2020. Maybe they will likely try it out if it is implemented. Hearts and minds.  I'll start first.

VR allows me to be inside the simulation, verses being an observer from the outside. There are often fleeting moments when I am fully immersed and I have done some of the following:

For Presence:

  • I inattentively attempted to rest my arm on the virtual armrest and found nothing there...
  • When I attempted to place my VR controller on the right-hand seat, only having the controller crash to the floor...
  • While flying in IMC conditions at night, as my plane's lights briefly illuminated the mountain where I was about to take a dirt nap. This gave me a healthy respect for RL flying...
  • I had a catastrophic failure, and frantically tried to diagnose the problem while plummeting to the ground...it was sheer terror...

Some of the examples above, caused me made me realized that I was experiencing what is called VR presence. This happens when you believe for a fleeting moment that you are actually there--if only for a second.

For the VR naysayers, why wouldn't you want to experience consequences of being inattentive to the laws of physics or nature? The virtual experience will be indelible in your hippo campus, as some like to say...

For Fun:

  • Attempting to land a 737 while sitting in the back of the plane, looking out the window.. it's all riding on you to save the day...great fun! 
  • Flying and chilling while listening to my favorite music or watching a video during a long haul flight. Did you know we can bring windows into or simulations and move it anywhere we want? You can also pin maps, checklists, or anything you want in VR.

For Education:

  • Flying touch and go patterns.  Your landings will improve as you, now, at least have modicum of depth perception in VR. 
  • Practice flying in IMC conditions and feel what it is like if you become disoriented. 
  • You can practice what your flight instructors often tell you... look outside. It is effortless with VR. 
  • Finally having the chance to experience flight in horrible weather conditions. it is just in reach...

Development Time and Cost:

X-plane VR was implemented by one developer within a few months, give or take. Have you tried High-end VR? I know the cost is prohibiting to many. Even I can't really afford it but I have saved and done without in other areas. People do find ways to spend money on their hobbies or passions.

Who Stole My Controls:

I often read comments about finding your flight controllers from people who have never tried VR. This is really a non-issue unless you are spatially challenged. I have no less than a couple hundred buttons at my disposal, and I know where every thing is at all times. You can adapt if you try. Also, a mouse cursor or VR controllers are available in most modern simulators. I also bought a mini ring mouse from Japan. It is a bit fiddly, and will require more adjustment.  If you want to use a keyboard, strategically place a bit of Velcro to the your keyboard, and use that to home in on the other keys.

The Future:

I also have an Oculus Quest...now this is the exciting part...Oculus will allow this portable headset to be tethered, and will implement hand and finger tracking, within early 2020. Oh the possibilities...

My Specs:

I have the HP Reverb @ 2016X2160 and the visuals are stunning. I get a solid 45 fps in X-plane in a Cessna around SFO. I get 30 fps in the ZIBO 737 in the same area.  I get fps in other areas. I can read all of the instruments and can discern the papi lights on approach. I also have a Samsung Odyssey OG, and it pales in resolution compared to the HP Reverb. I prefer the Samsung for night flying for the inky blacks of the OLED screen.

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Are you listening Microsoft?

 

 

Edited by daveinca2000
Weird spelling of "the" turning to "teh" anyone else? Embarrassing errors.
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@daveinca2000
Solid post!

I have the Odyssey Plus and love it!

 


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14 hours ago, mr340 said:

Interesting , will have to look into VR in the near future . Maybe 2020 , I do use TrackIR so I assumed it very similar .

I've used TrackIR for years. it is nothing like VR. It would be more fair to compare TrackIR to a mouse view controlled by your head. Please give proper PC VR a try if you can.

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Specs: I9-10900KF, RTX 3090 | 32bg ram I9-9900K Nvidia 1080 TI, 32bg ram | Headsets: HP Reverb, Samsung Odyssey OG, Oculus Rift, Oculus Quest and Oculus Go
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5 hours ago, irrics said:

@Woozie

 

Fair points, however I would counter that they will miss an opportunity here simply for VFR flyers who could absolutely get by with just a great yoke and their VR headset and no need to reach for anything. 

 

That sort of setup is literally perfect for an amazing VFR experience that they are going to be providing straight away. 

 

This new FS is going to be the very best VFR experience we have seen or dreamt of. 

Agreed.

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5 hours ago, TechguyMaxC said:

All they've said is that it's not there right now, and they'll look at adding features later.

Yah. DTG said the same thing. I'm tending towards thinking this will be right up there with seasons in X-Plane....... 😋

Let's hope I'm wrong, since the questionnaire for the alpha specifically asked questions about VR

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23 minutes ago, daveinca2000 said:

I've used TrackIR for years. it is nothing like VR. It would be more fair to compare TrackIR to a mouse view controlled by your head. Please give proper PC VR a try if you can.

Got that will look into this early 2020 and see the difference . I am really considering this as for p3d and track ir  I'm getting neck spasms from using Track IR. lol


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It’ll come. I’m just curious about their decision to use DirectX 11 vs DirectX 12 and how that may be affecting the timing of their VR implementation.

Will we have to wait before they upgrade to Direct X 12 before we get VR?

Also hoping they aren’t going to try to implement some type of Augmented Reality system instead or before VR.

 

Edited by Mocha

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