17 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Of course none of us have done that have we?

A quote from the Panda Security website. 

Quote

Software piracy has become a worldwide issue with China, the United States and India being the top three offenders. The commercial value of pirated software is $19 billion in North America and Western Europe and has reached $27.3 billion in the rest of the world. According to the 2018 Global Software Survey, 37% of software installed on personal computers is unlicensed software.

Software piracy doesn’t require a hacker or skilled coder. Any normal person with a computer can become a software pirate if they don’t know about the software laws. With such a widespread impact, it’s important to understand what software piracy is and the dangers it presents.

Best regards

Edited October 21, 20196 yr by Lorby_SI

4 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

The only way is if the installer can report back the product key is already in use

Or if somebody really hates that person. Anyone can go to the police. (as opposed to a contract breach, where only the other party can try to sue, go to court)

Best regards

Edited October 21, 20196 yr by Lorby_SI

I always had a problem with flight sim payware where the license states you cannot alter or modify it in anyway (without permission), and/or moreover, you do not really own the product that you just purchased: It's "intellectual property". 

It's like you bought a car, but you must agree that you cannot make modifications to the engine or other hardware, or even change the body color.  

 BTW, I'v never violated a licensing clause in FS payware.. 

1 hour ago, Dougal said:

I would like to comment on how refreshing to see it remain a 'grown-up' conversation:-)

Good point. When I saw this I was wondering how long it would take to head south 😁

33 minutes ago, Lorby_SI said:

Certainly you mean the EULA?

Ah, but that is not entirely true. A criminal offense is independent from anybody getting hurt. They are illegal because there is a law that says so. You live in the EU too, and copyright laws are pretty much the same in all member countries. Thinking that the EULA is of no consequence is dangerous. Following that logic, the original sales contract doesn't have legal value either, because it hasn't been signed, so you don't own anything... The real question is, how each individual country chooses to deal with contract breaches.

What is true is, that in Europe it is legal to sell or give a software license to someone else - as long as you don't keep a copy for yourself. The licensor may try and sue you in a civil court for breaking his licensing terms, but in this special case they usually fail (IIRC like Microsoft did when they went against the practice of selling OEM license codes of Windows).

Best regards

 

Yes, i meant the EULA. They can *TRY* and sue, but as there is no written proof that someone actually agreed on "whatever", the process will simply not go further. Nobody will waste their time pursuing someone that sold an item when it says in the EULA that the item cannot be resold. There's just no way to know whether someone actually agreed or not with that same EULA.

Now piracy is condoned, and i agree with that. You cannot distribute stuff that you bought for yourself no matter which channel you use and you SHOULD not keep copies of stuff you resell, but that... Oh well not everyone does that.

Sure, someone can give you a car, but you have to pay for registration, licence, and insurance before you can legally drive it. And the original owner has to sign it over to you. 

Again, when you buy an add on, you don't own it. You have permission to use it. If you give it away both you and the person you give it to have to "live with it".

40 minutes ago, Lorby_SI said:

A quote from the Panda Security website. 

Best regards

Those warnings are made because of the loss of income, surely. But in my scenario there isn’t a loss of income.

20 minutes ago, overspeed3 said:

I always had a problem with flight sim payware where the license states you cannot alter or modify it in anyway (without permission), and/or moreover, you do not really own the product that you just purchased: It's "intellectual property". 

It's like you bought a car, but you must agree that you cannot make modifications to the engine or other hardware, or even change the body color.  

 BTW, I'v never violated a licensing clause in FS payware.. 

The part about "no mods" in the EULA has more of a different aspect for software. As long as you don't try to sell the modified thing as your own, that is. And that "own" is a tricky question too, how much must be changed in code until it becomes something new? Many a legal battle has been fought about this.

But IMO this "rule" originates from the warranty laws. In every country, when you sell something, you are required by law to provide warranty. That is notoriously tricky with software and often ignored. But generally speaking, no support and no warranty can be given if the product is not in its' original state. And that is the same with cars too.

With FS addons it is especially easy to screw them up, and other addons might compromise them too, so most EULAs try to rule out warranty entirely, or at least restrict it. That "no modification" part must be as old as there are computers. In the old days, software products were often based on interpreter languages. Any change to the product would have compromised and changed the whole thing.

Best regards

6 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Those warnings are made because of the loss of income, surely. But in my scenario there isn’t a loss of income.

No, they are made because of risk of going to jail without really wanting to...

Best regards

42 minutes ago, Lorby_SI said:

Or if somebody really hates that person. Anyone can go to the police. (as opposed to a contract breach, where only the other party can try to sue, go to court)

Best regards

Who would know? If person A gave the installer to person B together with the key neither party is likely to broadcast their actions.

The installation software in question was recently modified as genuine users may need to reinstall and the link to the site that confirms purchase would no longer work as it cannot be purchased any longer.

Bob - yes then in the eyes of the authorities, you own that car. You have "permission to use it".

What I don't quite understand in software is why user B cannot take over the permission from user A through proper channels. Then again, that premise supposes total honesty from A and B, which is harder to prove than having the Lamborghini sitting outside your house. So I guess I have answered myself.

3 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Who would know?

And that is the big question, isn't it? Which is reiterated on and on in the discussions about piracy.

Do I just keep a wallet that I found? Do I steal a handbag/phone/whatever I happen to want, if I know for sure that nobody is watching and I will never be caught? Etc etc.

Best regards

Gents, the comparison with a car aren’t valid. You can’t both own the car unless you’ve learned how to clone things. Both of you can drive it but not at the same time.

in reply to @Lorby_SI, yes, neither party would want to end up in jail but would it even get to court given there was no loss of income? What has been lost? Nothing. Just breach of copyright but as I said earlier I suspect most of us have been guilty of that offence if we’ve recorded a friend’s CD or vinyl album.

Why are software laws so draconian in comparison? In both cases there is a loss of income but how often have you heard of people ending up in jail because they had a illegal recording of an album? 🤔

4 minutes ago, Lorby_SI said:

And that is the big question, isn't it? Which is reiterated on and on in the discussions about piracy.

Do I just keep a wallet that I found? Do I steal a handbag/phone/whatever I happen to want, if I know for sure that nobody is watching and I will never be caught? Etc etc.

Best regards

But in that example one party has lost money. In my scenario neither party has a financial gain. If the product was still available the person who wanted it would happily part with his cash.

10 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

The installation software in question was recently modified as genuine users may need to reinstall and the link to the site that confirms purchase would no longer work as it cannot be purchased any longer.

And if they want everybody to just take it, they will say so. Otherwise...

As a "maker of things" you have a certain attachment to your products. And yes, piracy hurts. People just taking my stuff hurts. Inside... I can't see why I have to protect everything by barbed wire just because otherwise everyone thinks that I don't care. I do.

Best regards