News from LR

[BobFS88 700]

1 hour ago, fogboundturtle said:

Vulkan does not address the outdated scenery and lighting in XP11

The move to Vulkan in 11.51 was never meant to address "the outdated scenery and lighting in XP11" but to get the overall sim to function the same or better as before the conversion. Those extra goals and expectation only come from folk who don't or unwilling to understand the purpose for moving to the new api  and say anything to make their own facts of the design goals to fit their opinion. 

 

[Janov 2,383]

1 hour ago, GoranM said:

And taking into account he's a 737 Captain

Thanks for the nice words, Goran. I got demoted to A320 (family) Captain a few years ago though, when they scrapped my beloved 737 literally out from underneath me 😪. So all I know about how real aircraft fly is from back then... 😄

[FlyBaby 659]

8 hours ago, GoranM said:

If you can’t beat ‘em...

 

I’m trying to make a point. 

yeah...because you definitely can't beat em...

[FlyBaby 659]

5 hours ago, mSparks said:

Suppose that depends if MSFS2020 came out on top,

did it?

 

MSFS2020 has been on top since their initial trailer.

[FlyBaby 659]

2 hours ago, GoranM said:

 

I posted an image of the list of issues FS2020 has, because there were people already coming in talking about "FS2020 will do this, this and this...blah blah blah".  Not a single word from anyone about the issues listed.  For over a decade, the MSFS crowd has been slamming Austin and Laminar for X-Planes lack of seasons.  FS2020 is confirmed to not have seasons, and not a whimper from the same crowd.  Ironic doesn't even begin to describe that.

I don't mind robust discussions and banter.  But making it personal is definitely below the belt.

 

MSFS2020 will have different issues for years to come. I mean modelling the world is a huge task.

So I don't mind issues list considering what they are offering at the start...

How many "years" has LR done nothing about their weather system / clouds that tank performance and don't extend to the horizon?

How many "years" has LR done nothing about their AA and jaggad shadow lines?

How many "years" has LR done nothing about their "awesome" lights that turn on in a grid pattern as you fly...killing the immersion?

So, yes MSFS2020 will hit the store with issues, but they are surely listening, getting feedback, and acknowledging / addressing things at a much faster pace LR. And they won't sit back, and let payware / reeware devs try to fill in the gaps for "basic" features. MSFS2020 will "partner" with those who do it better, and combine that tech into their sim.

This is why the crowd is more tolerant when it comes to issues with MSFS2020...they have shown that they are listening...they aren't making arrogant statements about not spending money on market research....they aren't making arrogant statements about not caring about what people want to hear.

When I saw this vid in 2017, I knew that XP was not going to go much further...and it hasn't. Thankfully someone was listening and doing market research....and MSFS2020 is the result of that effort

See 8:20 mark...

 

 

 

 

[Murmur 3,978]

For how long should this forum be ruined by people which, by their own admission, hold a grudge against Austin and LR and are not interested in XP anymore?

[Janov 2,383]

2 hours ago, FlyBaby said:

See 8:20 mark...

Austin is speaking about what he thinks sets X-Plane apart from other flight simulators. For him, that is the engineering part of X-Plane, the planemaker and flightmodel. He describes how he believes that market research or consumer wishes do not influence this core feature for him. He also talks about the other team members that work on other parts of the simulator (VR, performance, autogen).

He does say that he never spent a cent on market research - but neither have I and I have a pretty good idea what the top consumer wishlist for X-Plane is (and so does the LR team, believe it or not).

So I really don´t know how this all brushed you so wrong, and what Austin said in that video that made him your archenemy and the bane of your life 🤣. I personally think that for someone to get so riled up about what Austin says (this is the second time you made a lenghty post, detailing that interview), shooting from the hip at a conference like that....may have problems that have nothing to do with Laminar Research or the way they conduct their simulator development.

Your constant zeal to spray your hate of X-Plane on every forum remotely having anything to do with this is further fueling that suspicion of mine.

I would suggest for you to take a deep breath - it will be alright! You can play your new game (haha, see what I did here?) in a week or so, and if it helps you regain whatever balance that interview destroyed in your life - yes, MSFS has pretty clouds that are appearantly very friendly on the framerate! 😆

Really - your hysterical hating of X-Plane isn´t getting you any cheer, not even from your sidekicks. It makes people feel sorry for you.

I love X-Plane and am not happy about MSFS coming in and hurting its sales, third-party economy and therefore future development the way it will, I think that is obvious. But I don´t think that the Asobo team or Microsoft are villains and scoundrels that did not listen to the cries of the community for certain features (well, except for VR, helicopters, gliders, seasons, replay, particle effects,... 😂 - just kidding).

PS: I said I would stay out of the MSFS forum here at avsim and let you have your little moment - and I did, except for one post that had nothing to do with the XP/MSFS debate. I was hoping that you would do the same, but see that you came over here to spread your gospel... lets stay on our sides of the fences, shall we?

 

Edited August 8, 2020 by Janov

[soaring_penguin 431]

2 hours ago, FlyBaby said:

they are surely listening, getting feedback, and acknowledging / addressing things at a much faster pace LR.

Microsoft is known for putting out MSFS version (fill in your number of preference), add maybe one or two patches, then abandon it completely until the next version number. So I have to disagree with you on this.

FSX was a DX 11 showcase (and honestly did not deliver on the marketing).
MSFS 2020 will be Azure showcase (petabytes of world detail and AI enhanced weather system).

I have no idea if MFS 2020 will be any different, I can not look into the future, but I doubt they have the same enthusiasm as the Laminar team.

Edited August 8, 2020 by soaring_penguin

[fogboundturtle 2,708]

@janov Nothing prevents you to expand your business to MSFS. I don't know about others but I don't XP11. I just call it for what it is.  Competition in the market is a good thing. I know many of my friend won't give up XP11 either but they did mention that once the 3rd party plane will start popping up, they might just stop all together.  I am sure there is a lot of simmer exactly like them.  It's up to LR to come back with all the things people have been complaining about and offer a solution for XP12.  I certainly would welcome that.

[mSparks 2,129]

4 minutes ago, Janov said:

He does say that he never spent a cent on market research

No one in niche high value markets does.

Its only needed when you are trying to squeeze $120 out of the pockets of people who live hand to mouth and are terrified by thinking about tomorrow.

Xplane serves a different market, one who can live with 2D bill board clouds that actually look OK, the weather and graphics now getting a truly "next gen" polish just goes to show how far down the todo list they actually are now. 

[Janov 2,383]

10 minutes ago, fogboundturtle said:

I certainly would welcome that.

I can agree with that - if my making a living depended on it, I would probably investigate developing for MSFS, doing both is prohibitively time consuming as you need two totally different development piplelines (I think, haven´t see the new SDK).

Competition is good - as long as it is fair and balanced. I am sure you watch the news sometimes, and they don´t call the heads of MS, Amazon, Google and Facebook up to the senate for some tea and crumpets. Its not like the goverment in almost any civilized country isn´t watching intently if a monopoly forms somwhere. Because a big player coming in and driving a small player out of business is competition - but it isn´t good (unless you are on the big players team, like so many here 😉).

I get that a lot of you think that LR are pouty children that don´t do seasons, ATC, better scenery etc. just to spite you and will now certainly come of their high horse and finally give in to customers demands because the good folks at Asobo are finally giving them a run for their money... It is not so. If Ben Supnik could wave the magic wand, you would have all of that and a little pot of gold tomorrow with X-Plane 11.51. They are a small team, they can´t do all of this stuff in a year or two like some big company with a bottomless funding and access to worldwide data just did.

Cheers, Jan

 

Edited August 8, 2020 by Janov

[fogboundturtle 2,708]

Like I said, I am not a haters and I understand they don't have the budget that MS has. As a consumer, I am looking at what am I getting in terms of value for my money. I think both sim have their own pros and cons. After playing the MSFS alpha for months now, every time I boot up XP11, I get reminded of all the things I love but also all of the things I hate about it.  Scenery is a big part of the immersion factor. It's impossible to do VFR flight out of the box. MSFS offers that built-in. For GA lovers like me, it's the first flight simulator that you can say, VFR is now possible pretty much everywhere in the world

[JRBarrett 3,208]

4 hours ago, Janov said:

Thanks for the nice words, Goran. I got demoted to A320 (family) Captain a few years ago though, when they scrapped my beloved 737 literally out from underneath me 😪. So all I know about how real aircraft fly is from back then... 😄

And I would like to thank you for your wonderful series of YouTube tutorials on the use of WED to create or improve XP airports. I have learned a lot from watching them!

[Murmur 3,978]

1 hour ago, Janov said:

I love X-Plane and am not happy about MSFS coming in and hurting its sales, third-party economy and therefore future development the way it will, I think that is obvious.

I don't know, I think it's not a given. May depend on a lot of factors.

In the last 12 months, since MFS was announced, XP sales actually grew more than in the 12 months preceding (+80% vs +70%).

MFS will certainly increase the popularity of the flight sim genre, and for a simmer that will leave XP for MFS, there could be some new simmer that will decide to also try XP instead. Even if in terms of relative market share MFS will likely be the dominant one as it was up to a few years ago.

Also, LR has an additional income/advertising venue that MFS is lacking (XP Mobile) which also helps its desktop version.

So there's lot of factors... What will MFS offer (and what will it lack) one or two years from now? What will LR offer in XP12 compared to XP11 and to MFS? Etc.

I actually even agree with some of the things that Flybaby says, and I have a good share of dissatisfaction with XP (and with all other sims) so the hope is that renewed competition will have a positive effect on XP as well, rather than leading to its demise.

 

 

[strider1 588]

5 hours ago, BobFS88 said:

The move to Vulkan in 11.51 was never meant to address "the outdated scenery and lighting in XP11" but to get the overall sim to function the same or better as before the conversion. Those extra goals and expectation only come from folk who don't or unwilling to understand the purpose for moving to the new api  and say anything to make their own facts of the design goals to fit their opinion. 

 

Bingo! The armchair pilots prefer eye-candy vs functionality, performance, etc... Don't get me wrong I like eye-candy too but not at the expense of simulating everything else in the sim. 

The move to Vulkan allowed me to set my autogen to Maximum with a solid smooth 30 FPS. Prior to Vulkan I was looking at low twenties with lots of stutters. The move to Vulkan was good move, this will allow Laminar to up the ante in the visuals dept!