53 minutes ago, Chock said:

'FS2020 is a big step backward as a training aid for real-world pilots'. Hmmm, you think so?

Try telling that to all the people who can now practice accurate VFR training exercises on a flight sim which runs at decent frame rates whilst actually looking like the real world, without having to spend any money at all on any add-ons, or do any additional tweaking or installation.

Does the new sim have issues which need sorting out? Yes it does, but none of the above have anything to do with that.

 

 

Yes, VFR in a low slow steam gauge Cessna is GREAT!

However, there has been a huge change in IFR flight from circa 2004 and circa 2020. 

In 2004 PBN was not even a buzzword and most satellite based navigation was limited to the GPS approaches of the day. I could get into most airports with simple ILS, LOC, VOR, and NDB approaches.

Fast forward to 2020 and the world has changed significantly. At many airports RNAV is now the defacto standard for SID, STAR, and approaches with SBAS LPV accuracy down to near precision approach minima. 

So to say the avionics are NO WORSE then the software released 15 years ago, it's not really that refreshing. The bar has moved up considerably.

We will see what the patches fix. 

33 minutes ago, snglecoil said:

All I'm going to say is that every parent thinks their baby is the cutest ever.

But you could forgive people for thinking their 20 year old baby is old enough and ugly enough to get out the house and make way for a new baby.

Edited August 26, 20205 yr by ErichB

As far as the lack of documentation complaint.. I stand corrected, but we had to find info for ourselves for FSX & FS2004.

2 hours ago, DPSimulation said:

Can you explain more?

When the sim will be updated by downloading 79 Gb or so there are chances your modifications will be erased simply unless Asobo take them and integrate them in next release

Edited August 26, 20205 yr by filoux

Just now, filoux said:

When the sim will be updated by downloading 79 Gb or so there are chances your modifications will be erased simply unless Asobo take them and integrate them in next release

That doesn't really explain your original point that FSX was open to development and MFS is closed. 

What you have stated here is a different thing entirely - and actually not vastly different from how P3D or XP currently work.

Perhaps Bruce should be comparing this week old MSFS to a week old MSFSX, rather than what MSFSX eventually became after years of work by other contributors. I think he (or anyone) would be hard pressed show me another sim that has anywhere near  the potential of MSFS on it's first week of release. What we have here was never intended to be "study level". It was developed as a platform for those who wished to make it more complex to be able to do so. A starting point if you will. And also as a game for the masses who just want to jump in and fly. rather than falling between these two stools, I think it will bridge that gap admirably The default content is already way above the quality of anything we have ever been offered in a base product before, both in terms of content and realism. The keyword here is "potential" and Microsoft Flight Simulator has it by the bucketful.

2 minutes ago, ErichB said:

That doesn't really explain your original point that FSX was open to development and MFS is closed. 

What you have stated here is a different thing entirely - and actually not vastly different from how P3D or XP currently work.

I don't get that statement either. Drop anything you want into the Community folder and it stays. You can even modify packages distributed by MS by making the changes in the Community folder. Many of the files can be edited with Notepad+.

I find making changes to the ecosystem many times easier and I can make changes while the sim is live as opposed to the old shut her down and restart.

6 minutes ago, ErichB said:

That doesn't really explain your original point that FSX was open to development and MFS is closed. 

What you have stated here is a different thing entirely - and actually not vastly different from how P3D or XP currently work.

For development, correct me if I am wrong but TPD must and can play only with tools provided by MS/Asobo for IT security reasons. Would love to see complex systems modeled with dll like on PMDG aircrafts but I think it’s not possible for now. 

7 hours ago, MarioDonick said:

Hm, the following quote:

Hm, he surely remembers that in FSX we were also not able to "build a flight plan, load instrument procedures, or otherwise use it like its real-world counterpart"  in FSX' default G1000?

Yes so funny to read that and talking about FDE in FSX default 🤣🙃

1 minute ago, awf said:

Yes so funny to read that and talking about FDE in FSX default 🤣🙃

You know FS20 FDE is not far different than FSX lol. 

Anyone inclined to remember FSX -- especially at release! -- through rose-colored glasses should take a look at this Avsim thread from November 2006 (note that this was close to a month after release).

Some highlights:

"I personally am very impressed with FSX. Once I did those autogen fixes I'm getting 15 fps with nearly everything maxed out most of the time including light bloom - which is prettier than any girl in England."

" I must say though there is one big failure in my view and that is the ubiquitous desert textures everywhere from Alaska to the amazon. It is shambolic and the developers who occasionally post here have not addressed this at all (that I've seen)."

"Lets just face it guys FSX was released far too early we could easily have lived with FS9 for another year with all the fantastic addons that have transformed it out of all recognition over three years. The hardware to run FSX well just isn't even on the drawing boad at present, so why all this indecent hast to bring out a product still burdened by significant bugs that no one can use to its full potential?"

Edited August 26, 20205 yr by honanhal

Just now, filoux said:

You know FS20 FDE is not far different than FSX lol. 

Here we disagree -;) they are different , or you have to use the legacy FDE 😉

6 minutes ago, honanhal said:

Anyone inclined to remember FSX -- especially at release! -- through rose-colored glasses should take a look at this Avsim thread from November 2006 (note that this was close to a month after release).

Some highlights:

"I personally am very impressed with FSX. Once I did those autogen fixes I'm getting 15 fps with nearly everything maxed out most of the time including light bloom - which is prettier than any girl in England."

" I must say though there is one big failure in my view and that is the ubiquitous desert textures everywhere from Alaska to the amazon. It is shambolic and the developers who occasionally post here have not addressed this at all (that I've seen)."

"Lets just face it guys FSX was released far too early we could easily have lived with FS9 for another year with all the fantastic addons that have transformed it out of all recognition over three years. The hardware to run FSX well just isn't even on the drawing boad at present, so why all this indecent hast to bring out a product still burdened by significant bugs that no one can use to its full potential?"

As it has been with every FS release.  Sometimes I think this community is its own worse enemy for getting new things.

2 hours ago, pjs37 said:

I think some people need to reinstall FSX vanilla and see how things were.  Either through time or through add-ons have developed a very distorted look at the past.

 

 

100% This.  I still have FSX steam edition vanilla loaded on to my rig.  There are about 3 things that I can think of off the bat that FSX does better than MSFS2020

1.  It loads faster.

2.  It runs smoother

3.  It's easier to make mid flight adjustments (change plane, change flght plan, etc. etc. )  
 

I'm still giddy over the fact that I can map multiple functions to the same key/axis.  In the past, I needed FSUIPC just to allow the single throttle on my Flight Yoke to map the throttle to each of the 4 engines.  

And absolutely NOTHING in FSX even with payware scenery compares to what FS2020 pulled off with Lukla.  I still have nightmares about airports on plateaus or carved out in the side of mountains due to the need for "flatten" statements.  

I giggled when I took my C172 off from Lukla and went down that ski ramp they call a runway.  That giggle turned into outright laughter when 5 minutes later, I landed the C172 and found myself stuck on the hill at full throttle because my plane couldn't climb the hill to the terminal.  It actually started rolling backwards.  I fly in and out of there with a Grand Caravan now until someone releases a twin otter.

22 minutes ago, honanhal said:

Anyone inclined to remember FSX -- especially at release! -

... brings back these memories of dispair in 2006 when I realized that my (then) potent computer was seen as a potato by FSX. It took me 5 more years (2011) until I bought an i5 2500k which handled FSX good enough.

oh how quickly People forget. in MSFS I am buzzing downtown Manhattan in 4K at almost 60fps straight put of the box.