35 minutes ago, Ricardo41 said:

I'm doing it this way, and it usually works. Definitely not SOP but, hey, it's a sim. 

1. Select an arrival runway and procedure, say, ILS RW 12

2. Look up the appropriate approach procedure and "load and activate" BEFORE you take off (this tip came from another avsimmer)

3. The aircraft will now follow - while on "FMS" the flight plan. 

4. Punch in the appropriate nav frequency. 

5. Turn FMS to VOR1 on the PFD

6. When on an intercept angle to the localizer hit the APPR button on the autopilot. 

7. LOC active, glideslope comes alive. As soon as the plane starts its descent I do the flaps and gear thingy.

ATC SHOULD clear you to the appropriate altitudes. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't, though. 

TL/DR: activate the approach procedure BEFORE you depart. 

So ATC is not vectoring you to final like other versions of FS?

19 minutes ago, SirDan said:

Have found more FS pilots knowing more  tech , geek stuff about the planes they are flying than some Real World pilots that get paid to fly them, sometimes.  lol

That might be true in a few selected cases. (Perhaps because we can only study that they get to try for real)

I know many RW Pilots, and at least with one of them I would not get into his airplane even if we were in Krakatoa when the volcano was about to erupt. His idea of fun was to fly a Bonanza V35 on top of the Popocatepetl Volcano Crater, razing the grass, or buzzing his vacation home to almost pick up ashes from the chimney. Hi passed away of old age though.
 

BTW: OP, Both MSFS Citation Jets specs are way off the charts, hence at the moment most flying characteristics are not real. (Weight, Thrust, Fuel Consumption, Fuel Capacity, Gas Tanks, etc)

Edited August 29, 20205 yr by RamonB

27 minutes ago, Der Zeitgeist said:

Just open the fuel window using the toolbar.

Slaps forehead....  Wow, talk about right in front of my face.

1 hour ago, Ricardo41 said:

2. Look up the appropriate approach procedure and "load and activate" BEFORE you take off (this tip came from another avsimmer)

What's your process for entering the approach in the flight plan from inside the Longitude?  Just want to make sure I'm not missing any steps in what's working for you. 

Edited August 29, 20205 yr by Dillon

44 minutes ago, Dillon said:

So ATC is not vectoring you to final like other versions of FS?

Nope. At least I haven't gotten one vector in any of the ILS flights I've been doing. No idea, why. Maybe I'm doing something wrong. 

21 minutes ago, Dillon said:

What's your process for entering the approach in the flight plan from inside the Longitude?  Just want to make sure I'm not missing any steps in what's working for you. 

MFD - Proc - Scroll down until you find the one for your runway - click - then load and activate. The airplane will then fly the procedure. 

I'm not an expert, I'm sure someone else can explain this better than I can. 

2 hours ago, Ricardo41 said:

 

2. Look up the appropriate approach procedure and "load and activate" BEFORE you take off (this tip came from another avsimmer)

 

Tried this method, doesn't work. Loading and activating the approach before take off deleted my flight plan except the approach. 

7 hours ago, Kenjiro75 said:

Even an airliner wouldn't stall at 160 kts!

Try this with an MD-11 carrying 90 tons of cargo.. Even with flaps she would be having issues.

NOTE - this is just my assumption based on the impressions and limited research I've done on the net. All I know is that my Sky Sim bird is "problematic" (not unmanageable) going that slow even with full flap. She is coming down! Yes, I've had to use full throttle and pray sometimes to recover!

Of course, many other airliners are available and mileage does indeed vary. If we are all having fun in the sim then all is good. 

8 hours ago, thepilot said:

Me, as long as it's not clear whether it's just a badly programmed FDE for an individual aircraft (and thus salvageable) or a problem at a deeper level, meaning with the simulator engine itself.

The FDE and avionics have a variety of problems, however, we can't fix them because this aircraft's FDE is encrypted due to being premium content.

7 hours ago, Blaze said:

Yes, it's way overpowered. I've been able to control that with throttle management. Have not encountered the stall issue, with the flaps down. Could be a cool biz jet with a lot of love but your right its disappointing as is.

Actually, if you don't blow the ITT limit, it works about right other than fuel flow, which like the default CJ4, is out of this world.  The FDE currently doesn't reflect actual FADEC limited performance. Keep under the ITT limit and you'll find it is much truer to life.

9 hours ago, Kenjiro75 said:

So I gave it a try and did my first Longitude takeoff & landing... That was terrible! After takeoff it takes a few seconds for the plane to reach 320+ kts and its system yells "overspeed!". It shouldn't behave like a fighter jet with afterburners on, should it?? And the approach? I was shocked, when the Longitude started to warn me about the stall, when I was flying 160 kts! This is insane! Even an airliner wouldn't stall at 160 kts! And the landing? Eh, I did it like an amateur 😞 So instead of a smooth & pleasant flight experience I felt like I was riding an angry bull in the skies. Totally disappointed...

Low speed performance is a challenge, but not unmanageable. There are a couple things to remember - first the Longitude holds a lot of fuel and weight influences approach and stall speeds. If you take the Longitude out with 50% fuel and a load of people and return to land 10 minutes after takeoff, you'll be heavy, so you need to fly higher approach and landing speeds.

Here's what I've found works to fly this plane:

 

7 hours ago, Blaze said:

In full disclosure "No" I'm not a type rate Longitude pilot but I don't think I need to be to say it's OP...

Okay I'll bite, far from scientific and just for grins, I looked up it's performance on Wikipedia, says 16 minutes to 43K at 33,000lbs probably not max rate. I loaded a standard day at KSAN set the weight  and launched. I was overspeeding climbing through 33K and made FL430 in 6:27 seconds; you be the judge.

It's actually not a bad objective test, and not at all unscientific...you've experimentally determined that the MSFS Longitude climbs at an *average* rate of 6667 fpm all the way from SL to FL430.  That result is simply absurd...the modelled thrust is not off by a few percent, it's off by several hundred percent.

How do these folks expect us to take their flight model seriously with built-in acft that are this massively off-scale wrong?  I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that the initial release of a sim platform touting new, cutting-edge atmospheric and flight dynamics modelling to bring with it models that demonstrate something actually resembling the advertised capabilities.  This is a grossly-deformed caricature of an airplane from a performance perspective.  This aspect of the initial release (flight dynamics) is proving quite disappointing.

5 minutes ago, w6kd said:

 

How do these folks expect us to take their flight model seriously with built-in acft that are this massively off-scale wrong?  I don't think it's unreasonable to expect

Yes it is unreasonable, because Joe Blow average gamer doesn't care. And that's Asobo's client base. In fact, Joe Blow is gonna say: "wow this thing climbs like a bat out of hell, how great is that?" Joe Blow gamer, unlike Avsim aviation nerds and armchair pilots, doesn't sit at his desk, with the real POH on his greasy lap, comparing the thing to real world figures. 

If you want by the book performance, you are going to be waiting for addons. I dunno maybe Eaglesoft will step up to the plate... oh, wait......

15 minutes ago, w6kd said:

It's actually not a bad objective test, and not at all unscientific...you've experimentally determined that the MSFS Longitude climbs at an *average* rate of 6667 fpm all the way from SL to FL430.  That result is simply absurd

Nobody is forcing anyone to climb out at 6,000 feet. Set the vertical speed to something more realistic, adjust climb power accordingly, and all is good. It's like the old joke: guy goes to the doctor and says, doctor it hurt when I do that. Doctor says: then don't do THAT.

4 minutes ago, Ricardo41 said:

Nobody is forcing anyone to climb out at 6,000 feet. Set the vertical speed to something more realistic, adjust climb power accordingly, and all is good. It's like the old joke: guy goes to the doctor and says, doctor it hurt when I do that. Doctor says: then don't do THAT.

This reminds me of an add-on developer that I sparred with back during the FS9/FSX transition...one of their add-ons would shut down the engine if you pulled the throttle axis back to idle, and his solution was "well, don't pull the throttle to idle."

If this sim is supposed to be strictly Hasbro and Mattel gamer fare, then all MS need do is advertise that.  They've advertised something much different, and it's fair play to hold them to that standard.

@Ricardo41 You can try and twist all answers given here like pretzels if You want.
Your old doctor joke is proof of it.

The fact is that both Citation Jets are bugged. No question about that.

12 minutes ago, w6kd said:

If this sim is supposed to be strictly Hasbro and Mattel gamer fare, then all MS need do is advertise that.  They've advertised something much different, and it's fair play to hold them to that standard.

I fully agree: I'm sure many here and there would understand if MS advertisd MSFS as a game, not as the Simulator they hyped 24/7 during the last year.

Edited August 29, 20205 yr by RamonB

Airbus A320 stall characteristics at high rates of speed:

08:40- stall @ approx. 190 kts
11:48- stall @ approx. 195 kts
12:01- secondary stall @ approx. 205 kts

Aerodynamic stalls in a nutshell:

(Again, in a nutshell, AOA is critical.) 

 

Edited August 29, 20205 yr by RustyFlyer