Am I the only one

[eslader 1,787]

36 minutes ago, GearUp180 said:

Flight simmers stop caring about fps?

Gamers in general. I remember back when Quake 1 was big. People were bragging they were getting 60fps. I always thought... And?

Those were the days when TV was 29.97fps and it looked fine. Never understood why people were so desperate for 60. Still don't, and that's after a long career *working* in television. HD I get. 4k I get, though less so than HD unless the screen is really close or really huge. But wanting more than 30fps when most people couldn't tell the difference in a blind test? Silly.

.

 

 

Edited September 18, 2020 by eslader

[Steve Dra 7,588]

21 minutes ago, eslader said:

But wanting more than 30fps when most people couldn't tell the difference in a blind test? Silly.

eslader....It's for the same reason I chose an Onkyo CD player over the rest (and paid extra for it) way back in the day when CD player's 1st released...because the SN ratio was a percentage or two better than the rest...and the frequency range was superb.  Of course, I, nor anyone else on the planet could hear those differences between the $1000 CD player and $700 version....so I bought it for......... What else? Bragging rights.  Loved having my friends over to listen to the new gadget (yes...there was a time when CD's were new technology) and watch them marvel at....me showing them the spec-sheet of the CD player they were listening to...because they all knew, personally, that it sounded no better than the bargain $200 one they got at Kmart on sale. 🙂

I've locked my frames at 30FPS, and the sim is simply gorgeous and smooth.  144hz?  I don't play shoot'em ups where the scene is changing so fast that might actually help.  Anything above 30 on a non-combat flightsim, a waste in my opinion.

Edited September 18, 2020 by Steve Dra

[CarlosF 1,241]

I could care less about FPS, I'm more interested in getting rid of stutters. IMO, FPS are meaningless if the sim/game experiences stutters, this is what kills immersion....in my book anyway.

[MarkW 1,493]

13 hours ago, Boomer said:

Yeah but what is the keystroke to check FPS in FS2020?

There is none, you can go into developer mode to show it but best to use MSI Afterburner and RIVA Tuner to show it on your screen.

[edpatino 1,968]

2 hours ago, bobcat999 said:

I am not sure if we will ever see a decent and completely 60 fps stutter free sim in our our life time, because for stutters, there will always be one thing waiting for another (internet/hard disks etc.), and for frame rate, as soon as we buy more powerful GPU's

For sure you have it. Aerofly FS2 gives you consistent FPS above 80-100 most of the time with minimum stuttering, if any, and excellent graphics. Regretfully, this simulator was never developed enough and didn't get the support from add-on developers to become a better sim. Now, I suppose it'll soon be part of modern history.

Cheers, Ed

[CJ1045 469]

Slight appologies to Ed but you can always tell the ones that talk about FPS a lot as they are the ones with their PC spec in their sig.

CJ

[Steve Dra 7,588]

1 minute ago, CJ1045 said:

Slight appologies to Ed but you can always tell the ones that talk about FPS a lot as they are the ones with their PC spec in their sig.

CJ

That's partially true...but not all inclusive.  @edpatino for example, is a long time simmer with his specs in his sig, but really cares more about his flight experience than if he can squeeze one more frame outta' his rig.

A lot of old-timers just have specs in their sigs because way back in the early days of Avsim...I think (not sure) they actually required us to have them...just so every time we made a claim about performance, we didn't get 100 posts asking our specs.

These days...you don't need to drop $3000 into a system to get great performance...sign of the times (a good sign at that). 🙂

 

[mtr75 653]

2 hours ago, bobcat999 said:

At last!.. 👍

I agree, because people can become obsessed about if they are getting 31 of 33, and spend more time on that and tweaking than flying itself!   

But I have checked frame rate occasionally when testing things to see if they are frame hogs or not - especially in the settings.  But if it is mainly above 30, I can tolerate the odd stutter or pause, and I think most of us will have to live with it anyway - if it's good enough, just fly! (I know.. it's only pretend flying) 😁

This is pretty much my attitude. There was definitely a time when I spent way more time tweaking than I did flying. That ended about two years ago with P3D4.4 and especially with the introduction of SkyForce and EnvironmentForce. Since then I've had pretty much a set-it-and-forget-it flight sim experience.

And I've truly never checked FPS in MSFS. I do get about one stutter every flight, maybe two (haven't flown much with the latest update), and honestly I couldn't care less. I literally opened the sim the first time, set it to Ultra, and goodnight Irene. Granted, I'm a VFR GA guy in MSFS (I do my hardcore IFR stuff in P3Dv5), and if you're a tubeliner-into-LAX type you probably have a much different experience than me in MSFS, but for me, it works. It really works.

[Stoopy 1,571]

14 hours ago, mtr75 said:

That has never checked their FPS in the sim? I don’t even know how to do it. I couldn’t possibly care less. I set the global to Ultra, ran it, it runs smooth and looks wonderful. 

Good enough for me. 

You are most definitely not the only one.  I am a longtime habitual "tweaker" since long before even FSX and even wrote guides on how to measure and improve FPS on other simulators such as CFS3, where I had a "Tweak and Tune" guide posted that got tons of hits, I still get comments today form people who remember it.  12 pages of instructions and tips just to get to 30 FPS.  I also obsess a little bit about FPS rates in VR with IL-2 Sturmovik, since it's important to have at least 45+ FPS in order to avoid nausea in VR.   Fortunately that sim has an incredible dev team issuing ongoing improvements over the years and performance is pretty stellar.

So, no stranger to the tools of the trade and methods, but with MFS I have adopted a hard and fast "retired" status from even considering looking at what FPS I'm getting, and you know what?  So far it's been the most enjoyable 4 weeks ever spent with a (civilian) flight sim. 

Just say NO to the FPS madness!

[jaydor 233]

In the games industry there are two types of games.  Fast games and slow games.  Flight simulators are slow games.  So FPS locked at 30fps is the best average to allow the cpu to concentrate on other things.

Mind it is dangerous to mention lower fps is ok in these forums as there are the pure at heart ready to pounce. 

 

[Ron Attwood 3,467]

2 minutes ago, Stoopy said:

Just say NO to the FPS madness!

There's none so fervent as a convert eh? Good on ya. .👍

[Steve Dra 7,588]

2 minutes ago, Stoopy said:

I also obsess a little bit about FPS rates in VR with IL-2 Sturmovik, since it's important to have at least 45+ FPS in order to avoid nausea in VR.

If there is one place you are justified about tweaking FPS (and eliminating stutter) is in VR....it can be a puke-fest if the hardware is convincing the balance and stability functions of your body that your world is stuttering. 🙂

No doubt that tweaking is a hobby in of itself, much like aircraft repainting. 😉

Glad I was only an outside observer to that hobby...all in the pursuit to have a better simming experience, not to brag that I got 100 frames @ 60hz on a 4k 52" Tv. 🙂

 

[kerosene31 349]

1 hour ago, eslader said:

Gamers in general. I remember back when Quake 1 was big. People were bragging they were getting 60fps. I always thought... And?

Those were the days when TV was 29.97fps and it looked fine. Never understood why people were so desperate for 60. Still don't, and that's after a long career *working* in television. HD I get. 4k I get, though less so than HD unless the screen is really close or really huge. But wanting more than 30fps when most people couldn't tell the difference in a blind test? Silly.

.

 

 

To be fair, for other games, framerate matters a ton more.  In Flightsim 20-30 is fine for most of what I do, but for other games I need a lot more.  I play racing sims at 50-60 and they still feel too slow.  In games where split seconds matter, FPS matters.  Flightsim games are obviously very different in that regard.  I'd much rather have the visuals in FS.  

[Colonel X 1,430]

6 hours ago, eslader said:

Those were the days when TV was 29.97fps and it looked fine. Never understood why people were so desperate for 60. Still don't, and that's after a long career *working* in television. HD I get. 4k I get, though less so than HD unless the screen is really close or really huge. But wanting more than 30fps when most people couldn't tell the difference in a blind test? Silly.

That's a very common misconception. 60FPS is literally twice as fluid as 30FPS and EVERYBODY can tell once shown the right material. It's simply not true anybody couldn't tell. Flight simulation is usually a slow paced activity, 30FPS is sufficient for me. But if you see a racing game or a shooter in 30/60 side by side, it's a night and day difference. Play a 60FPS game for a day or two, then switch back to 30 and you will think it's broken, so choppy it will feel. High frame rates are a fail in TV/Cinema, but there's no question 60FPS is better in games.

[Ixoye 1,825]

I like 60 fps when I fly my favorit Extra 330, otherwise I can understand that 30fps is enough, but my computer runs best with unlocked fps and G-Sync, if I lock at 30fps with Vsync I get micro stutters for some reason.

Edited September 19, 2020 by Ixoye