Bonanza Turbo V3 RELEASED

[robert young 2,897]

2 hours ago, jpe828 said:

Right, and the burn in the airplane is not what is stated in the manual... it is low in this airplane, but about right in the Improvement project model. I was just wondering where Robert got his fuel flow numbers from and if there was a reason for it being on the low side. 

As for the crosswind comment, oh yeah... taking off is also impossible in a crosswind. As soon as the nose lifts you are out of control. 

The POH is based on 20 degrees RICH of peak. Most Bonanza owners never fly this way. I recommend you look at this Youtube video as a demonstration of true achievable fuel flows, and upon which the Turbo mod was based:

The example is not of the turbo, but normally aspirated.  The same principles apply. No POH ever gives achievable values for reasons of caution. Manufacturers do not wish to be sued by owners who are disappointed by POH claims, so fuel flow and other performance values are always described on the cautious side.

 

 

Edited November 23, 2020 by robert young

[jpe828 624]

I totally understand that. If I run it rich of peak, which is pretty common in Bonanza circles, and certainly gets the discussion going, I still gett around 13 gph in the Turbo Bo in Sim. In reality the books say it is around 15+ gph in cruise. 

I fly in real life, I am very familiar with fuel mixture settings, more just a question on how the mod was designed and where the fuel numbers come from as I noticed that it was a bit lower than what I would expect. The video is certainly a good one in understanding this stuff though, he explains it well. 

[robert young 2,897]

But even a tiny movement of your mixture control can increase or decrease the flow by quite a margin. When you say 13 gph, at what airspeed, at what rpm and at what altitude? The turbo is more economical per power setting/speed, because for no penalty it is ramming more air into the mixture at altitude, which means the engine is more efficient. That saves fuel per distance flown. Another thing to consider that in turbo-normalised aircraft, lowering the rpm at altitude is almost the same as lowering mixture. The rpm lever acts as a substitute mixture control.

You are also comparing to the normally aspirated bonanza mod. The Turbo mod has a completely different fuel flow dynamic.

 

Edited November 24, 2020 by robert young

[edpatino 1,968]

One quick question: is the v3 turbo mod compatible already with the latest MSFS World USA update?.

Thanks in advance.

Cheers, Ed

[cavaricooper 2,615]

Ed- it works beautifully if you don't need more than a very simple wing leveler AP.  Asobo totally destroyed the AP systems in this last update.  The good news is that she hand flies BEAUTIFULLY, and so as long as YOU fly, and just engage AP as a wing leveler... you're fine.  We are all going to be better pilots at the end of this cycle- as we will all hand fly more than we used to. Heck, a whole new generation will discover the E6B, paper charts and performance tables ;).

C

Edited November 27, 2020 by cavaricooper

[Hyperfocal 186]

2 hours ago, cavaricooper said:

Ed- it works beautifully if you don't need more than a very simple wing leveler AP.  Asobo totally destroyed the AP systems in this last update.  The good news is that she hand flies BEAUTIFULLY, and so as long as YOU fly, and just engage AP as a wing leveler... you're fine.  We are all going to be better pilots at the end of this cycle- as we will all hand fly more than we used to. Heck, a whole new generation will discover the E6B, paper charts and performance tables ;).

C

I was just thinking about that. Robert did such a wonderful job getting the aircraft to fly well and it's such a joy to fly that it takes much of the sting away from not having a functional autopilot.

[DAL1850 51]

On 11/26/2020 at 8:31 AM, edpatino said:

One quick question: is the v3 turbo mod compatible already with the latest MSFS World USA update?.

Thanks in advance.

Cheers, Ed

Not from what I can tell. The G36 is uncontrolable after the patch. Weak authority on pitch and yaw control surfaces - next to zero elevator authority really. Can't rotate the nose to even initiate takeoff. Bank is hyper-sensitive - the plane just death spirals with minimal input. Ironically, the plane actually flies better inverted post-patch. Instead of consulting with Rob, Asobo completely bjorked Rob's work.

Edited November 29, 2020 by DAL1850

[marsman2020 1,310]

11 minutes ago, DAL1850 said:

Not from what I can tell. The G36 is uncontrolable after the patch. Weak authority on pitch and yaw control surfaces - next to zero elevator authority really. Can't rotate the nose to even initiate takeoff. Bank is hyper-sensitive - the plane just death spirals with minimal input. Ironically, the plane actually flies better inverted post-patch. Instead of consulting with Rob, Asobo completely bjorked Rob's work.

Is there any chance you have set the 'legacy' flight model in the menu by mistake? (Some people have supposedly seen that setting change on its own?)

I did a 3 1/2 hour flight in the Turbo Bonanza today, other than the AP all seemed well to me.  I've been using it for my around the world flight every weekend, so I have > 20 hours on it so far....  In fact I was landing with a 17kt headwind and no crosswind today and with the reduced ground speed it was one of my best landings ever....

Edited November 29, 2020 by marsman2020

[robert young 2,897]

27 minutes ago, DAL1850 said:

Not from what I can tell. The G36 is uncontrolable after the patch. Weak authority on pitch and yaw control surfaces - next to zero elevator authority really. Can't rotate the nose to even initiate takeoff. Bank is hyper-sensitive - the plane just death spirals with minimal input. Ironically, the plane actually flies better inverted post-patch. Instead of consulting with Rob, Asobo completely bjorked Rob's work.

No that's wrong. Apart from the slow heading on autopilot, which every aircraft suffers from, the Turbo mod flies just as it did before. I think you must be flying with the wrong flight model settings as marsman2020 says.

Edited November 29, 2020 by robert young

[DAL1850 51]

25 minutes ago, marsman2020 said:

Is there any chance you have set the 'legacy' flight model in the menu by mistake? (Some people have supposedly seen that setting change on its own?)

I did a 3 1/2 hour flight in the Turbo Bonanza today, other than the AP all seemed well to me.  I've been using it for my around the world flight every weekend, so I have > 20 hours on it so far....  In fact I was landing with a 17kt headwind and no crosswind today and with the reduced ground speed it was one of my best landings ever....

Seven hells. It did get kicked back from modern to legacy! I'm guessing the update set me back as honestly I have never bothered looking at this setting since first configuring the sim for max realism and forgetting about it. No wonder I've been so dismayed.

Thanks for pointing this out. Of course, now I need to revalidate all my settings. I wonder if my joystick cals are still valid (should I be using FSUIPC7 at this point - not sure how far along the development curve that is, but historically, I've always setup my flight controls through FSUIPC).

[Fielder 3,683]

Beware the legacy.

Especially at the Salvartore School for the Young and Gifted.

https://www.amazon.com/Legacies-Season-1/dp/B07JPGSCPP

[Glenn Fitzpatrick 3,798]

What is the legacy model actually meant for ?

[edpatino 1,968]

1 hour ago, DAL1850 said:

Not from what I can tell. The G36 is uncontrolable after the patch. Weak authority on pitch and yaw control surfaces - next to zero elevator authority really. Can't rotate the nose to even initiate takeoff. Bank is hyper-sensitive - the plane just death spirals with minimal input. Ironically, the plane actually flies better inverted post-patch. Instead of consulting with Rob, Asobo completely bjorked Rob's work.

Thanks for the info. I’ve started to think about the presence of a saboteur inside Asobo’s team, as stated in another thread here.

Cheers, Ed

[marsman2020 1,310]

12 minutes ago, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

What is the legacy model actually meant for ?

The Legacy flight model is intended to give limited compatibility with ported FSX aircraft.

It shouldn't be used with any of the native MSFS aircraft. It's not what they are tuned against.

However the option is not clearly explained in the menus and a lot of people seem to be setting the flight model to Legacy thinking it will give them better performance, or more reliable flight, or that the extra realism sliders that become active when it it set make things more realistic.  Then there are widespread reports of the option seeming to change on its own.

I've been watching the MSFS official forum and seeing dozens of threads a week where this poorly presented option is ruining people's experience with the sim.

Edited November 29, 2020 by marsman2020

[edpatino 1,968]

3 minutes ago, marsman2020 said:

The Legacy flight model is intended to give limited compatibility with ported FSX aircraft.

It shouldn't be used with any of the native MSFS aircraft.

Ok. Read that after my previous post. Will check the setting and test the excellent Rob’s mod with the Bonanza.

But still think Asibo would have to find who is the saboteur inside their team 🤣, honestly.

Cheers, Ed