DC Designs F15 Released

[Kilo60 660]

Meh.... I’d rather get a DCS AC for twice the price and actually be able to do combat and shoot weapons!

[jmig 100]

I have never actually flown a F-15. I do, however, have over 800 hours in the F-4. I was able to purchase the DC F-15 for $15.00 because I already owned the P3D version. It is worth $15.00.

Flight dynamics and handling are important to me. I was happy to find that its handling was solid and steady, as a heavy large wing loaded aircraft should. Landing was as solid as the real world F-4 was, and I assume the real F-15 is. I did find the T/O to be squirrelly at around 120-130 kts. just before rotation. I don't know if that is a model or MSFS issue.

As a retired real world pilot, I tend to stay inside the cockpit. I am not a stickler on visual detail. I never paid much attention to it in real airplanes, nor do I in virtual airplanes. Can I easily read the gauges and MFDs and is the important stuff there? That is what is important to me.  I find the cockpit details to be good enough. The same for the sound.

Where I am disappointed is in the avionics. Dean (DC-Designs) states that this is not a study-level model. I agree that a MSFS model does not need the weapon systems. I do want to navigate, however. My "C" model is missing the VOR/TACAN arrow and the ILS steering bars. While it will tune a VOR/ILS station and show its designator and DME on the HUD and HSI, I never got the steering bars. I mentioned this on Sim-OutHouse and Dean stated that this would be fixed in an up-coming patch. If that is fixed, I will be happier with this model.

I also find the MFD(s) pitiful. There is one fixed image or screen. You can not change screens or select NAV sources. This, to me, is a serious lack of basic aircraft functionality. If the GF1000 can be coded, a basic MFD can be coded. I should be able to switch the weapons load out screen from the primary MSD ("E" model) to a side MFD and put the HSI in the middle, where 99% of pilots would have it. I should be able to select GPS, TACAN/VOR, and ILS NAV sources. This isn't study-level, it basic avionics.

As for the people complaining about the lack of supersonic flight, on average, less than one percent of flight time is supersonic. Yes, it would be fun to blast through Manhattan supersonic and watch the windows blow out (if MSFS did that) of the skyscrapers. However, that is not something pilots are allowed to do in real life. 😉 

FSX (not sure of P3D) never simulated correct supersonic flight either. In supersonic flight the air molecules cannot move out of the way fast enough. So, they are packed together denser than normal. This is the compressability factor of a gaseous medium, like air. The compressed air flowing over the flight control surfaces make them more effective at supersonic speeds. The real aircraft will limit the movement of elevators and ailerons during supersonic flight. Otherwise you could get a pronounced and dangerous pitch up or roll of the aircraft for the same stick movement.

This same compressing of the air molecules is what caused the destabilization of early aircraft in the trans-sonic region of flight that cause deaths of some early test pilots.  Modern designs like the F-15 are designed so the only way the pilots know they are supersonic is looking at the Mach meter. I don't know how MSFS coding will handle supersonic flight? I guess that is why it is taking so long to implement.

I agree with the majority in that this isn't worth $41.00 USD. If Dean can add the additional functionality listed above and improve the cockpit visuals and sounds, I think it will edge closer to being worth the asking price. Even then, however, I think $25-30.00 USD would be more market friendly.

 

[regis9 4,033]

6 minutes ago, jmig said:

I have never actually flown a F-15. I do, however, have over 800 hours in the F-4

Thanks for the very detailed post.  I always appreciate hearing from people that are experienced in flying high performance combat aircraft in threads like this.

[177B 730]

I don't know if the real F15 can do this but I managed to T/O and land in 1200' in Fryeburg ME KIZG, this is my home airport. That is about the same distances as my Cardinal.

Here is a video compilation of external views shot using FSplayground from some different angles. At one point I create a sonic boom I think.

I love how steady and easy it is to precision land. This was only my 5th landing.

This afternoon I will try some carrier ops.

 

[Chock 17,769]

12 minutes ago, jmig said:

I have never actually flown a F-15. I do, however, have over 800 hours in the F-4. I was able to purchase the DC F-15 for $15.00 because I already owned the P3D version. It is worth $15.00.

Although the F-4 is of course a very different aeroplane than the F-15, I appreciate your appraisal of it since you're at least a bit familiar with flying a fast interceptor, so thanks for that. 

With regard to value and comparisons, further to mine and other people's comments with regard to DCS and value/merit, whilst it is true that there are F-15s for DCS, I think a more relevant comparison for this particular add-on, would be the fighter jets we've seen for FSX and P3D, so I'm inclined to relate it to stuff such as the FlyFreeStd MiG-29 and what that offers.

I pick that one in particular because I have the MiG-29 for DCS and that MiG-29 for FSX/P3D, and I think they are both good value and worthy add-ons for different reasons related to each sim they operate in. The MiG-29 in DCS is akin to the DCS F-15 in that they are both less detailed super-duper treatments of the aeroplane, and unlike some of the more super-study DCS aeroplanes with clickable cockpits, the DCS MiG-29 and the DCS F-15 are purely keyboard shortcut/HOTAS control aeroplanes with a non-clickable VC. Conversely, the FlyFreeStd Mig is, like this DC Designs F-15, a combat jet in a civilian sim, but with a clickable cockpit. At 20 quid, that FSX/P3D MiG comes with most non-combat systems working, plus several variants, so for six quid less than this DC designs F-15 (and even less for me since I bought it for just over a tenner in a sale), you get a fighter which can be flown pretty much as the real thing, anywhere you like, and this compares well price-wise with the DCS MiG, which is limited in terms of clickable interactivity and where you can fly it, but with a decent HOTAS stick and throttle, you can fight with it much like the real thing. Horses for courses, and relative merits.

This is the real reason why I think the DC designs F-15 is a bit over the odds price-wise, rather than in directly comparing it to the DCS F-15, because in MSFS, it's likely to be operated - or at least the buyer would want to - in the way that MiG for FSX/P3D is, with navigational practice, airshows and such being the things it should be able to do well for that kind of price tag. Of course there's nothing wrong with just kicking the tires and lighting the fires, but if that's all anyone wants to do, 26 quid is rather a lot for the privilege and really, it's further functionality which would justify that price tag, as it does in the DC designs F/A-18, where that one is compatible with the SimWorksStudios carrier add-ons and can pick it up on TACAN and all that kind of stuff.

[dobee51 349]

I like the plane too, and agree with poster JMig about the avionics.

The plane is missing an entire panel of A/P related switches on the right that are present in the FSX version.

See Video: 

 

I wonder how much work it would be to finish them.

As it stands now you have to activate the A/P on the left side, by the master switch. There's also a Heading Hold and Altitude Hold. Heading is set by rotating a knob in the front panel, which is ok but the only way to set Altitude is to capture it while you are climbing. Nor could I find any safe way to disengage the A/P to change the altitude later. In the FSX version you can activate the A/P in the right panel, set all the modes with a button press and instantly see the option illuminated, and even enter in a new altitude that you desire. 

[odourboy 1,290]

Seems like it was rushed to try to capitalize on current void in MSFS military. 

[marsman2020 1,310]

Pass based on the video review and the price.  I'm not into the "oh we'll make it better later" routine anymore, things have to be good at release, and a lot of the issues in that review are not limitations of MSFS but just poor attention to detail - light, sounds, etc.  The $15 Waco release was better! 

Quote

Seems like it was rushed to try to capitalize on current void in MSFS military. 

It was beaten by the $20 "Eurofigther Typhoon" which is even worse, with a panel full of stock EFIS items from different Asobo aircraft all smashed together.

Edited January 22, 2021 by marsman2020

[Steve Dra 7,605]

I was casually watching some DCS vids about the F15 in various dogfights (trying to see just how good its modeled in DCS vs what we're all debating about here), mostly by the very talented "Growling Sidewinder"....and came across this vid of the little MB339 1v1 guns against a big bad F18.  In the right hands it can certainly knock any plane out of the sky if underestimated. 🙂   

If you watch the whole vid (it is quite entertaining, and he's fighting against a real person and assumedly competent F18 pilot as he identifies him as a good friend), listen to the sounds...the sonic boom as the F18 zips past in the merge, the sound of the cannon burp....everything so well modeled in DCS.  In particular....something that caught my eye, at around 11:17, watch the shell casings coming out of the gun pods, they look as if they are moving so realistically and would not be surprised if they have their own flight dynamics.  Phenomenal detail.

 

Not saying the F15 (or any fighter) in MSFS should give us this kind of fidelity...but wouldn't it be cool if it could?  

[N7470 26]

21 hours ago, HighBypass said:

EXACTLY!!

I believe it would be the sim - just look at the videos of a hacked Eagle and hacked Tomcat going "supersonic" over NYC. The ASI gauge (generic external view one) shows the speed is well into the red barberpole zone and you can see the planes violently shaking and trembling as you describe.

As an aside, I do like taking SWS F-4 Phantom II out for a rip in FSX:SE now and again: Fly too fast at low level and the elevator locks up (as does the one on the Alphasim Viggen..). The only shaking and shimmying which the Phantom does occurs at high AOA and near the stall..  

From my experiments with a modded C172, you can get stable supersonic flight with the right flight model and weight (more weight for a given flight model = more shaking at very high speeds).  I can cruise along perfectly smooth at 20,000 feet and 1600 knots ground speed, 35,000 feet and 2000 knots ground speed (if my fuel/weight is low).   Above 2100 knots GS nothing seems to help.

[dobee51 349]

Just posted today on DC Designs Facebook:

FRIDAY UPDATE:

So, this week has been a bit “manic” to say the least. The feedback from the launch of the F-15 Eagles package has been overwhelmingly positive and equally vast, literally hundreds of messages both here and to Just Flight. There have been a few bugs of course but they’re being ironed out, and a lot of uses had their simulators on “Legacy” flight model mode, hence the control difficulties. Thanks to all who have purchased the Eagles so far, and I hope that you’re enjoying them!

I have a bug list of fixes for an update next week, but first I want to share a huge piece of news with everyone: I have worked out how to reach Mach 2 in MSFS using the Modern flight model. I’m not actually the first to figure this out, but I now know how it’s done so the Eagles will be Mach 2 capable ( at altitude ) by next week! This also paves the way, of course, for Concorde

I am also working hard on upgrading the cockpit textures. This was stated as the one thing most folks wanted to see improved, so it’s underway. Resolution is being increased, lots of detail added, and this work will continue steadily until the Eagle cockpits are fully up to MSFS standard.

For those suffering from sudden loss of FPS in the cockpit, this has been traced to the HUD – not all suffer it, and it doesn’t appear to have any “pattern” to it that I can see, so I’m working on that right now. There is something unique about the HUD which, given how the sim wasn’t supposed to be able to support third-party HUDs, is probably understandable. I’m hoping to fix this soon! I will also optimise the LOD models for multiplayer and AI a bit, and see what’s wrong with the AI sound – the files are there, but folks say they’re not hearing them so will figure that out too,

There’s a huge amount of work for me to do, so it’s a short update this week – hope that you all continue to enjoy the Eagles and I’ll be back here with another update next week as always. Happy Friday!

ETA: The HUD issue might be down to it using .BMP projections, as with FSX and P3D. MSFS prefers .PNG and they seem to work the same, but have tiny file sizes in comparison. This might solve the FPS drop issue

[177B 730]

Here is another video including some cockpit shots of the HUD the way I use it. This is my standard view it makes the HUD visible and very useful. Smaller it is hard to read and kind of faint.

This is a landing at an airport I once made an emergency landing at with a very rough engine in low IFR, the tower and approach was very helpful vectoring me in. It was due to lead shorted spark plugs and easy to fix, I flew home after about an hour on the ground fixing it. 100LL contains a lot of lead.

So I have fond memories of KBDL.

 

Edited January 22, 2021 by 177B

[bendead 1,086]

30 minutes ago, dobee51 said:

There have been a few bugs of course but they’re being ironed out, and a lot of uses had their simulators on “Legacy” flight model mode, hence the control difficulties.

Sounds like a certain polish video game company 😁

[marsman2020 1,310]

I really really wish Asobo would let aircraft makers override the flight model setting in their .cfg files.  I made a wishlist item for this but it only ever got 35 votes.  There are so many threads over and over of people having it set to legacy and totally messing things up. 

[blueshark747 1,845]

"Id rather buy the DCS F-15 and shoot weapons and blah blah blah...Top Gun pew pew..combat role"

Well.. yea they are two different sims that can be enjoyed alongside of one another.

No one is asking you all to choose between the two or even compare🙃

This JustFlight F-15 is obviously for a crowd who simply want to fly it on a full open world map with no combat or weapons systems.

You DCS comparison folks can be a strange bunch at times...these two sims are apples to oranges.

Is it okay to enjoy some fruit punch once in a while?🤣

 

Edited January 23, 2021 by blueshark747