v1.13.16.0 - screen tearing not a bug but a design change

[Ianrivaldosmith 5,317]

5 minutes ago, Clem116 said:

That will increase smoothness?

Well, yes. It sounds like you’re becoming cpu bound, which maxes one of your cpu cores, causing the stutters as it feeds your gpu, and your gpu feeds it back, and the cpu can’t keep up with your fast gpu. 
So, in essence, make your gpu work harder by increasing the render scale, (in turn it slows it down as it’s processing much more data), or gpu related options and push that gpu! This will allow the cpu some breathing space, and reduce/remove stuttering. Especially if you’re only at 1440. Plus when you go above 100 on the render scale, you’ll super sample the image so it will also look better. Don’t worry about your FPS, as long as they’re above 30 and it’s smooth, you’re golden. 
 

You gotta have a good balance between the cpu and gpu. It’s a balancing act. You don’t want the cpu running ahead....... 

Edited February 22, 2021 by Ianrivaldosmith

[Donka 645]

20 minutes ago, Clem116 said:

And you have in sim vsync on and set to 30FPS?

In sim v-sync on and set to 60. The driver after that one enabled an option that MSFS now uses after the recent update. Going back to the previous driver restores how v-sync was handled. 

[iFlySimX 751]

1 hour ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Well, yes. It sounds like you’re becoming cpu bound, which maxes one of your cpu cores, causing the stutters as it feeds your gpu, and your gpu feeds it back, and the cpu can’t keep up with your fast gpu. 
So, in essence, make your gpu work harder by increasing the render scale, (in turn it slows it down as it’s processing much more data), or gpu related options and push that gpu! This will allow the cpu some breathing space, and reduce/remove stuttering. Especially if you’re only at 1440. Plus when you go above 100 on the render scale, you’ll super sample the image so it will also look better. Don’t worry about your FPS, as long as they’re above 30 and it’s smooth, you’re golden. 
 

You gotta have a good balance between the cpu and gpu. It’s a balancing act. You don’t want the cpu running ahead....... 

Got it, thanks. I could be wrong but I don't think my CPU is bottlenecking. it's barely being used, 15% to 30%.

[MadDog 353]

In-sim Vsync = On with FPS = 30 works perfectly on my 60 Hz screen.  Nvidia settings (GTX 1070) are completely default.

I was formerly having to change my monitor to 30 Hz with Vsync/60 FPS; but the new settings provide identical smoothness (maybe even better) with much less fuss.  Great job MS... with this enhancement, I'm even willing to forgive the snafu with the flaps and airport signage!  Just please don't mess this up in a future patch!

Edited February 22, 2021 by MadDog

[Ianrivaldosmith 5,317]

7 hours ago, Clem116 said:

Got it, thanks. I could be wrong but I don't think my CPU is bottlenecking. it's barely being used, 15% to 30%.

That’s the total usage. I’ve seen people confuse that a lot. Check each individual core. See that one is being used predominantly. If it’s being stretched it will be at 90-100%. 

[bobcat999 8,483]

Ian is right.  My CPU usage rarely goes above 25-30%, but if you bring up the individual cores from windows Task Manager, one of my cores is nearly always running close to maximum.  The non-specific usage just shows the average across all cores, but the main thread is the one that can get overloaded and cause stutters.

In task manager CPU graph, right click and 'change graph' to 'logical processors' to show the detail.  It will actually show all threads, not just cores.

Edited February 22, 2021 by bobcat999

[Virtpilot 151]

I got a monitor capable of 144hz. But it supports of course 60hz also. For flight sim, is it better to run the monitor with 60hz or should I go with the highest refresh rate?

[Nyxx 6,993]

9 hours ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Well, yes. It sounds like you’re becoming cpu bound, which maxes one of your cpu cores, causing the stutters as it feeds your gpu, and your gpu feeds it back, and the cpu can’t keep up with your fast gpu. 
So, in essence, make your gpu work harder by increasing the render scale, (in turn it slows it down as it’s processing much more data), or gpu related options and push that gpu! This will allow the cpu some breathing space, and reduce/remove stuttering. Especially if you’re only at 1440. Plus when you go above 100 on the render scale, you’ll super sample the image so it will also look better. Don’t worry about your FPS, as long as they’re above 30 and it’s smooth, you’re golden. 
 

You gotta have a good balance between the cpu and gpu. It’s a balancing act. You don’t want the cpu running ahead....... 

Ian,

I read that around 12:20am this morning and it keep me awake lol.

Now the reason why is becasue my CPU#19 runs at 100% all the time with MSFS. So you got me thinking.

Now it does not matter how I try the MSFS VS and 30 FPS lock, MSFS on FRAPS and RTSS runs unlimited FPS. 

So I Droped my FPS with RTSS and keeped adding render scale till FPS droped to low. Then I droped it back 10 at a time till for the first time my CPU#19 runs at 95% all the time not peged at 100% but also keeps the 30 FPS.

For this test I did it at the addon KLAS and spined the camera around as fast as possable out side and in. I ended up at Render scale at 160 but FPS droped at times into mid 20's, I could just run 150 but only just so,140 and as you can see below I keep the 30 FPS all the time but CPU#19 is not pegs.

I will have to do a flight to see how it works in a proper flight but. Thank you. The best reply I've read in months. Cheers Ian.

Edited February 22, 2021 by Nyxx

[lucianon 18]

This is my experience so far...

Before the update I was using RTSS with Scanline sync / 2 (-1) giving a steady 30FPS very smooth experience, without any micro-stutter.

After the update, I found the settings below giving an experience as as smooth as with RTSS (and, perhaps, even better):

MONITOR (49" TV)
30Hz Refresh rate

MSFS
Vsync: ON
Frame rate limit: 60FPS

NVIDIA
Settings suggested on https://fs2020.surclaro.com/fs2020-nvidia-best-graphic-settings/
Except:
Vertical sync: Application controlled
Low latency mode: OFF
Pre-rendered frames: 3

RTSS
Not used anymore

This is on a i5-9600KF and GeForce RTX 2060 Super 8 GB running in 4K at Ultra (but Render scaling set back to 50%). I tried may different combinations, but only the above settings give the best smoothness and no micro-stutters. Of course every system is different... furthermore, this is a particular situation, as MSFS is used only as a visual generator, without avionics or flight model (so there is less "pressure" on the hardware).

 

[bobcat999 8,483]

@lucianon

Thanks - a useful post! 

[Ixoye 1,821]

I have notice that setting V-Sync to 30fps in game will half the monitor's refresh rate, my monitor can run at 100hz, and if I do, the game will try to sync at 50 fps, if I run my monitor at 60hz it will sync at 30 fps, is that correct?

Edited February 22, 2021 by Ixoye

[Nyxx 6,993]

2 hours ago, Ixoye said:

I have notice that setting V-Sync to 30fps in game will half the monitor's refresh rate, my monitor can run at 100hz, and if I do, the game will try to sync at 50 fps, if I run my monitor at 60hz it will sync at 30 fps, is that correct?

Since I had mine to 120 I thought I would try what you say out and your right. 🙂 I put mine on 60hz and as you can see below then the VS and 30 FPS work. Saddly for me its not even close to being as smooth in the VC as it is when using RTSS as my above post.

But for people running a CPU around 5 and a 3080. If you want to balance out your CPU and GPU and this is thanks to Ian, these are my setting to balance the two out and after a flight from EGGD to EGNT it does work perfect.

I DO NOT USE THE VS and 30 FPS LOCKED IN GAME. Thats there to show you need your screen set to 60hz to work.

The Key here is everyone should balance there CPU and GPU dont run your CPU with one core maxed out like ive done. NOTE: 1440p

Edited February 22, 2021 by Nyxx

[Diigg 5]

14 hours ago, MadDog said:

In-sim Vsync = On with FPS = 30 works perfectly on my 60 Hz screen.  Nvidia settings (GTX 1070) are completely default.

I have the same setup as you (GTX 1070, Vsync = On, FPS Lock = 30 fps, Monitor 60Hz) and I'm getting solid 30 fps and a lot of smoothness in game.

My technical question is, with a monitor at 60 Hz and the FPS locked at 30. Does this mean that each frame is rendered twice to synchronize the 60 Hz of the monitor?

On the other hand, by activating Vsync, is there any benefit to activating Low Latency Mode = Ultra in NVCP?

Thank you all

[Ricardo Andrada 4]

18 hours ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

You said you were running at 1440? I know this will sound weird, but, try and push your render scale to 120-40 range. And set terrain LOD at 100. Then report back... 

@Ianrivaldosmith Thanks for this suggestion, it was very useful, it gave a good result!

Edited February 22, 2021 by Ricardo Andrada

[MadDog 353]

1 hour ago, Diigg said:

My technical question is, with a monitor at 60 Hz and the FPS locked at 30. Does this mean that each frame is rendered twice to synchronize the 60 Hz of the monitor?

Yes, the monitor will continue to reproduce the last full frame it received until it gets a new one.  By locking framerates to 30, the video card doesn't need to work as hard and can more consistently deliver a new frame every 1/30 of a second.  Consistency is the key to smoothness.  Here are some typical examples for a 60 Hz monitor (each number represents the number of identical frames that the monitor displays):

FPS locked at 30:  2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-3-2-2-2-2-3-2-2-2-2-2-2-2

FPS locked at 20: 3-3-3-3-3-3-3-4-3-3-3-3-3-4-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3

FPS locked at 60: 1-1-1-2-1-3-1-1-3-1-1-1-2-1-1-1-1-2-1-1-1-1

For simming, we want those numbers to stay the same... we perceive micro-stutters when the number of identical frames exceeds the average.  1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1 would be ideal; but maintaining that at 60 Hz is difficult with today's hardware, so we target 2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2.

2 hours ago, Diigg said:

On the other hand, by activating Vsync, is there any benefit to activating Low Latency Mode = Ultra in NVCP?

I'm really not sure.  I thought that setting was aimed at higher performing games that exceeded 60 FPS; but it certainly can't hurt to try it out.  I don't think it will eliminate input lag... which is just an unavoidable consequence of slower framerates.