Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
boez

v1.13.16.0 - screen tearing not a bug but a design change

Recommended Posts

Hey everyone,

I'm still confused with this update/gsync/vsync. I have a verified gsync monitor. I've always had gsync enabled and vsync application controlled in NVCP. Since the update, I haven't changed anything but my mouse feels very laggy when in the sim. It creates a sluggishness that is not desired. I'm not sure what caused it but I'm assuming it's something to do with the mouse refresh rate now matching the sim fps instead of the mouse matching the monitors native refresh rate (144)? This is just a shot in the dark.

 

Interestingly, I just tried enabling vsync (fps 30) in the in-game settings now and the mouse sluggishness is gone. What would be the reason for that? I'm just confused..everything I've read said to make sure vsync is off and any limiters off if you're using gsync? Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Bottom line, does having vsync on in the in-game settings harm or disable gsync in any way? Is there any issue with this? Again, thanks for any help

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Ricardo Andrada said:

Hello

I still have micro stuttering when making curves in flight or taxiing on the ground.
Does this keep happening to someone else?

I have that, most noticable with a view angle not looking straight forward (TrackIR even makes it worse). The terrain then passes by more quickly and i have a lot more (small) stutter then.

I also see no higher FPS, nor more smoothness after this update, i find it even worse.

I tried a bit all settings FPS wise, VSync on/off ingame, on/off NCP (or both), frame limiter ingame and/or NCP all combinations, no increase in smoothness.

Because i did read again that the rolling should be set to off when you have a fast internet connection (i have a 300Mbit/sec), i did this only to find that it created a lot less smooth experience. Rolling Cache back to on, overall more smoother gameplay.

Edited by Lange_666

PC Specs: Win10 Pro 64-bit, i7-4770K@4.5GHz, Corsair H100i, AsRock Extreme4, ASUS Strix 1080Ti, 32 GB DDR3 2400, monitor: LG 27GL850-B27 2560x1440, HOTAS: Warthog + Virpil WarBRD base & hegykc mod MFG Crosswind pedals, TrackIR4, Oculus RiftS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Lange_666 said:

I have that, most noticable with a view angle not looking straight forward

For me a NVidia driver update solved microstutters that were introduced with the update. I was on driver version 456.71 before. My settings: Monitor 30Hz, VSync ON/60 FPS in game, NCP VSync set to "adaptive". As systems are different, your mileage may vary.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Tom_L said:

For me a NVidia driver update solved microstutters that were introduced with the update. I was on driver version 456.71 before. My settings: Monitor 30Hz, VSync ON/60 FPS in game, NCP VSync set to "adaptive". As systems are different, your mileage may vary.

Would be nice to know on which driver version you are now, no? 😉 


Greetings, Chris

Intel i7-8700K@5.0GHz, 2x16GB 3200MHz CL14 RAM, Gigabyte AORUS 1080Ti, Windows 10 Home 64bit, Prepar3D 4.5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, AnkH said:

which driver version you are now

Well, the latest offered by Geforce Expierience- which would be 461.40. But maybe a re-installation of the old driver would have done the same, who knows?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, jer2929 said:

This is just a shot in the dark.

As for the mouse cursor, it will stutter in many cases with g-sync, because now the cursor is tied to the frame rate. In many games, the mouse cursor is not rendered by the game, but by Windows, and it's always running at the monitor refresh. Even if the game runs at 80FPS, if the monitor runs at 144Hz, the mouse cursor moves at 144FPS. With g-sync, this is no longer the case. In games that switch to 30FPS when you open menu screens (many games do that), your mouse cursor will run at 30FPS too. This cannot be avoided.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Made some tests with G-sync and in-game V-Sync variations while i  had my Monitor frame rate counter indicator to ON  ( check if g-sync is working)

- With V-Sync ( in-game) OFF : G-Sync works 100% 

- With V-Sync ( in-game) to ON at 60fps: G-Sync still works and the fps limiter is my default Monitor refresh rate : 144hz

- With V-Sync ( in-game) to ON at 30fps: G-Sync  is not working anymore and the fps limiter is 72fps ( which is 144/2).

- With V-Sync ( in-game) to ON at 20fps: G-Sync  is not working anymore and the fps limiter is 48fps ( which is 144/3). This had the best smooth result + with out any mouse cursor  lag

 

 

Edited by Sanctus
  • Upvote 1

i9-11900K •  ASUS ROG-STRIX 3090 OC • Asus ROG-Maximus Hero XIII • G.Skill Ripjaws V 64GB DDR4 3600 CL16 • Asus ROG Swift PG279Q 27" Gaming Monitor  • VKB-Sim Gladiator Mk.II • Thrustmaster TCA Quadrant Airbus Edition

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello, a question.

Is it recommended to activate the "Triple buffer" option in NVCP with V-sync ON in game?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

As for the mouse cursor, it will stutter in many cases with g-sync, because now the cursor is tied to the frame rate. In many games, the mouse cursor is not rendered by the game, but by Windows, and it's always running at the monitor refresh. Even if the game runs at 80FPS, if the monitor runs at 144Hz, the mouse cursor moves at 144FPS. With g-sync, this is no longer the case. In games that switch to 30FPS when you open menu screens (many games do that), your mouse cursor will run at 30FPS too. This cannot be avoided.

Thanks for this explanation. I have just disabled gysnc for now as I'm not convinced its really ever done anything in MSFS and I can't really tell a difference with it on or off. I've enabled vsync limited to 30fps and seem to be having a similar experience as before the update.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Diigg said:

Hello, a question.

Is it recommended to activate the "Triple buffer" option in NVCP with V-sync ON in game?

Someone told me this is only for OpenGL graphics - but I am no expert and I can't confirm it myself.  

MSFS uses Direct X (DX11,soon to be DX12 hopefully).  I believe 'pre-rendered frames' may do a similar thing for DirectX.  I just set mine to 'use application settings' for all of these types of things now, then the sim either uses them or not as required.
If you do use pre-rendered frames, I would recommend no more than 1 or 2, otherwise your GPU will be rendering spare frames that the sim will not use in the main.  It is wasteful, can overstress your GPU, and actually cause worse performance if you get it wrong.
I get smooth at 'application setting'.  I tried 1 pre-rendered frame and it didn't seem to do anything, but my GPU is capable of about 36 FPS in general at my settings, so as I am now locked at Vsync 30 in sim, it always has spare capacity and can keep up in general.

There are so many different set-ups, individual PC capabilities, and in sim settings, that it is almost pointless asking advice unless it is for generalisations that may apply to everyone such as above.
Best thing is to experiment - just remember or make note of your best settings so you can go back if you need to! :biggrin:

I have noticed the biggest impact for me is still the amount of pixels on screen (fairly obvious really).  At my high/ultra settings on a slightly overclocked 1080Ti, 2560 x 1440 absolutely glides along, At full 4k (3840x2160) it struggles for 30 FPS, so I settled on 4k to screen but with 75% scaling (set from the user config file as it is not available in sim).  This gives me an absolutely silky smooth performance now with Vsync 30 in sim and nothing else needed - never seen anything like it! 
Closest I have seen before this was P3D at 60fps, but I couldn't hold it - too inconsistent in that.  

Edited by bobcat999
  • Like 1

I like to fool airline passengers into thinking I have my own swimming pool by painting a large blue rectangle on my patio!

Intel Core I7 8086K @ 5.1 GHz with water cooling, EVGA RTX 3080Ti Ultra (Default Profile), 32 GB RAM @ 3600 MHz (XMP), 2 x Samsung 1 TB NVME M.2.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m totally confused as well, my monitors are 60hz and I don’t have gsync freesync so the only way I can reduce tearing is to turn VSYNC on and lock at 60FPS to match refresh.  However I’m led to believe if my system can’t handle steady 60 FPS this will induce stutters which it does.

If I Lock at 30 I still get stutters. 

Edited by sidfadc

Thomas Derbyshire

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, sidfadc said:

my monitors are 60hz

Mine is 60 Hz by default. I have set a custom resolution in NVidia CP - same values but refresh rate 30Hz. Modern monitors should take no harm if they can't display what the graphics card is throwing at them and the driver will revert to the previous setting if you don't acknowledge the change within a certain time. So maybe it's worth trying - at your own risk though. 30Hz and VSync ON/60fps is 99% stutterfree for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well it took around 3 hours of testing various nvidia settings and msfs settings, nvidia settings in the vsync box I tried adaptive, adaptive half refresh rate, which is what I used to use in FSX and p3d, but it didn't cure the screen tearing, and allow the 3d application to control vsync.

In the sim I tried vsync on and off and 60 fps locked and 30fps locked, alongside all the other nvidia vsync settings. 

Best settings for my system and TV screen is, vsync on in the sim, fps locked at 30 fps. 

Nvidia control panel settings for the 3d application are allow the 3d application to control vsync and triple buffering set to on. 

This is now the smoothest I've ever had msfs 2020. 

  • Like 1

<p>vrs_supporter.png

 

Paul Sleight

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, sleightflight said:

Best settings for my system and TV screen is, vsync on in the sim, fps locked at 30 fps...

This is now the smoothest I've ever had msfs 2020. 

Yes, this is exactly my experience as well - like liquid silk! :biggrin:

 

  • Like 2

I like to fool airline passengers into thinking I have my own swimming pool by painting a large blue rectangle on my patio!

Intel Core I7 8086K @ 5.1 GHz with water cooling, EVGA RTX 3080Ti Ultra (Default Profile), 32 GB RAM @ 3600 MHz (XMP), 2 x Samsung 1 TB NVME M.2.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, bobcat999 said:

Someone told me this is only for OpenGL graphics - but I am no expert and I can't confirm it myself.  

MSFS uses Direct X (DX11,soon to be DX12 hopefully).  I believe 'pre-rendered frames' may do a similar thing for DirectX. 

First part it true. This setting is for OpenGL only. In fact in nVidia control panel the description you see when you move the mouse over this setting states that.

 

The second part is not correct but it a common misconception repeated in many forums! Triple Buffering refers to the storage areas in GPU VRAM while Pre-Rendered Frames are drawing requests that the CPU will send to the GPU. Let me expand... 

'Triple Buffering' refers to the VRAM storage area (or buffers) where the GPU puts the frames that it has already rendered (drawn) OR is in the process of rendering. So you have a buffer which is currently complete and is the image that you can see on the screen, a buffer that contains a complete image which will be displayed on the screen next and a buffer that GPU it currently rendereding (drawing) into and will eventually have it's turn being displayed. The GPU cycles through these buffer continously. 

The Pre-Rendered Frame count refers to the MAXIMUM number of rendering requests that the CPU can pass to the GPU (which will be processed by the GPU and become frames in the buffer and hence eventually displayed!). IF the GPU is not busy already drawing a frame then it will take this request and draw it immediately while, without waiting, the CPU continues making up the next request it will send - BUT if the GPU is busy then it adds this requested frame to a queue. Once the MAXIMUM length of this queue is reached (and so this queue is full) then the CPU just has to wait until a slot becomes free. 

The important point here is the MAXIMUM part - if you have a faster GPU than CPU then this queue will always (usually!) be empty. The GPU draws faster than the CPU can request. Conversely if the GPU is slower than the CPU then the queue may always be full and the CPU will stall while waiting. This is why user experience can vary so much and a tip you read in a forum may be completely wrong for your system and why a balanced system is the best option.

 

Edit: Note you could have a mix of triple buffering and pre-rendered frames if the graphics API allowed it. In fact I understand this is what Fast Sync is doing but also allows for the 'spare' buffer to be dropped (not displayed) if the GPU is lagging behind the CPU.

Edited by boez
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Tom Allensworth,
    Founder of AVSIM Online


  • Flight Simulation's Premier Resource!

    AVSIM is a free service to the flight simulation community. AVSIM is staffed completely by volunteers and all funds donated to AVSIM go directly back to supporting the community. Your donation here helps to pay our bandwidth costs, emergency funding, and other general costs that crop up from time to time. Thank you for your support!

    Click here for more information and to see all donations year to date.
  • Donation Goals

    AVSIM's 2020 Fundraising Goal

    Donate to our annual general fundraising goal. This donation keeps our doors open and providing you service 24 x 7 x 365. Your donation here helps to pay our bandwidth costs, emergency funding, and other general costs that crop up from time to time. We reset this goal every new year for the following year's goal.


    53%
    $13,405.00 of $25,000.00 Donate Now
×
×
  • Create New...