I am having problems with steering the Just Flight Arrow III in MSFS20  when I accelerate to take off speed I find I need to apply full rudder to keep it steering straight  and then when I lift off because of this I struggle to keep the wings level. I do not have any problems with all the other aircraft installed in the flight sim, has anybody else had this problem and is there a fix?

32 minutes ago, StewMags said:

I am having problems with steering the Just Flight Arrow III in MSFS20  when I accelerate to take off speed I find I need to apply full rudder to keep it steering straight  and then when I lift off because of this I struggle to keep the wings level. I do not have any problems with all the other aircraft installed in the flight sim, has anybody else had this problem and is there a fix?

The short answer is, use the rudder on the runway, but centre the rudder when you lift off. The long answer is...

If you are really struggling, try using the take off assistance option in the flight sim. It only helps you with the take offs, so it's not really cheating that much. Or if you want to perfect things, then here's how...

Normally you do have to give aeroplanes such as the PA-28 a fair bit of rudder to keep them straight on the runway for a variety of reasons including prop torque, increased back wash on the tail from the ground effect etc, but usually you would ease off the rudder inputs when it lifts off because you don't want it flying asymmetrically at a low lift off speed and a high angle of attack, because if it stalls when it's like that, you'll almost certainly have a wing drop as it attempts to auto-rotate into a spin.

If there is a bit of a crosswind, that might affect things too of course, since all aeroplanes tend to act like a weathercock with the tailplane basically being like a big sail, making them turn into the wind. Of course if the crosswind is the other way, then it might mean you need less rudder to keep the thing straight when going down the runway, as the crosswind would then cancel out the propeller's effect on making the thing want to turn. This is why you check the windsock. Each segment of the windsock which is blowing horizontal indicates five knots of windspeed.

Something worth bearing in mind too with all this, is that whilst some people will try to correct any crosswind drift after lift off so that they track straight in the direction of the runway and in line with it, unless you specifically have to do this, this is not necessarily the best idea. The reason for that is, if on the climb out, your engine fails or loses power, but you do have enough altitude to make a turn back to the airfield, if you had allowed the aeroplane to drift off to the side with the crosswind, this would then mean you'd be able to turn back for the airfield into the headwind and you'd actually pass through less degrees to be to be pointing back at the airfield, whereas if you'd corrected for that drift, you'd have to 'swan neck' the turn to accomplish this.

Of course if you ever do have to try the 'impossible turn' as this is known, then you make sure you have enough altitude to do it. You keep the nose down and you use the rudder with extreme care, so a fast steep turn (with plenty of speed from having the nose down) is usually better than trying to 'edge it around' whilst stretching the glide, that's what usually kills people when they try it that way, because the thing ends up spinning into the ground when one wing stalls from the asymmetric flight attitude.

Most of this stuff is fairly obvious when you've flown a bit and understand what is going on with the wings and the tail etc. If something feels right to do, it usually is right.

Edited March 16, 20215 yr by Chock

13 minutes ago, Chock said:

The short answer is, use the rudder on the runway, but centre the rudder when you lift off. The long answer is...

Normally you do have to give aeroplanes such as the PA-28 a fair bit of rudder to keep them straight on the runway for a variety of reasons including prop torque, increased back wash on the tail from the ground effect etc, but usually you would ease off the rudder inputs when it lifts off because you don't want it flying asymmetrically at a low lift off speed and a high angle of attack, because if it stalls when it's like that, you'll almost certainly have a wing drop as it attempts to auto-rotate into a spin.

If there is a bit of a crosswind that might affect things too of course, since all aeroplanes tend to act like a weathercock with the tailplane basically being like a big sail, making them turn into the wind. Of course if the crosswind is the other way, then it might mean you need less rudder to keep the thing straight when going down the runway, as the crosswind would then cancel out the propeller's effect on making the thing want to turn.

Something worth bearing in mind too with all this, is that whilst some people will try to correct any crosswind drift after lift off so that they track straight in the direction of the runway and in line with it, unless you specifically have to do this, this is not necessarily the best idea. The reason for that is, if on the climb out, your engine fails or loses power, but you do have enough altitude to make a turn back to the airfield, if you had allowed the aeroplane to drift off to the side with the crosswind, this would then mean you'd be able to turn back for the airfield into the headwind and you'd actually pass through less degrees to be to be pointing back at the airfield, whereas if you'd corrected for that drift, you'd have to 'swan neck' the turn to accomplish this.

Of course if you ever do have to try the 'impossible turn' as this is known, then you make sure you have enough altitude to do it. You keep the nose down and you use the rudder with extreme care, so a fast steep turn (with plenty of speed from having the nose down) is usually better than trying to 'edge it around' whilst stretching the glide, that's what usually kills people when they try it that way, because the thing ends up spinning into the ground.

And the best life saving measure on takeoff, when the engine quits, Immediately get the nose down. The natural reaction that most now dead pilots had, was to not do that, and think about the fact that the engine is not running anymore for a second or two, before they react. In that time the airspeed decays, a wing drops, and you are headed for your last nose down landing. 

Edited March 16, 20215 yr by Bobsk8

Thank you for replying to my query and I do understand the aerodynamics  as I have two thousand hours flying the real PA28, and a commercial licence. I have also down loaded the MSFS version which does not simulate these symptoms. I have tried adjusting the torch which did improve the performance greatly but I still feel that I shouldn't have to do this. Has anybody else suffered from this problem?       

Personally, I use the rudder assist for take offs because I think at the moment the sim's necessity for rudder is over the top at the moment. You still need to use a bit of rudder, but at least the thing isn't heading for the terminal the moment you open the throttle. 🤣

50 minutes ago, Chock said:

Personally, I use the rudder assist for take offs because I think at the moment the sim's necessity for rudder is over the top at the moment. You still need to use a bit of rudder, but at least the thing isn't heading for the terminal the moment you open the throttle. 🤣

I agree, I started using the rudder assit for takeoff ( and I have never ever had to use  that in any sim) and it is much better. I think this too is in the ground programming of MSFS 

3 hours ago, StewMags said:

Thank you for replying to my query and I do understand the aerodynamics  as I have two thousand hours flying the real PA28, and a commercial licence. I have also down loaded the MSFS version which does not simulate these symptoms. I have tried adjusting the torch which did improve the performance greatly but I still feel that I shouldn't have to do this. Has anybody else suffered from this problem?       

As a couple others have said....enable the Takeoff rudder assist.  Also not terribly realistic but the aircraft in MSFS handle quite awfully on the takeoff roll with any hint of wind.  You shouldn't have to be fighting the airplane like that so the takeoff assist is a good workaround for now until Asobo can improve on this issue...

Hi. I understand what you experience since I just bought the PA 28 Arrow III for MSFS and it keeps turning to left. I am a PPL-A and understand the frustration of people commenting how to fly 😛

I have opened a ticket at justflight.com and hope to get any helpful answer. Tell me if you have solved it out 🙂 

 

Best Regards,

Paul Eirik Worre

4 minutes ago, Paul Eirik W said:

Hi. I understand what you experience since I just bought the PA 28 Arrow III for MSFS and it keeps turning to left. I am a PPL-A and understand the frustration of people commenting how to fly 😛

I have opened a ticket at justflight.com and hope to get any helpful answer. Tell me if you have solved it out 🙂 

 

Best Regards,

Paul Eirik Worre

It shouldn't keep turning to the left, unless your controls are not calibrated. Are you using rudder assist?

The PA28 does come with rudder trim 😄   It is the little round knob below the parking brake.

Also make sure you are not on legacy flight model, and check that your brakes are free and not binding on one side.

Edited April 29, 20215 yr by Glenn Fitzpatrick

Ok so my understating is problem not with JF Arrow but with  Asobo ground friction model in general . All airplanes to some degree weathervane toward the wind while being on the ground! This is wrong! Thing gets very frustrating especially on take off and landing roll airplane start weathervane  and so falls have to dance on rudders a lot.

In contrast, IRL airplanes are being pushed to opposite side of the cross wind, and they weathervane immediately after lift off but not during on take off /landing run or taxi ! In some instances with strong gust can lift wing . So rule of thumb is during take off we have keep aileron into ( the wind until Vr and after than just crab offsetting wind drift with heading.( ailerons held proportionally to airspeed as they effectiveness vary with speed)

Maybe worth checking if you have another controller plugged in that might be interfering. For example I usually have a playstation controller plugged in, behaving badly in a lot of games.

Another thing you might want to try is resetting the save state of the arrow, I think there were some issues with it. Read something about the autopilot being on when it's not supposed to be

Edited April 29, 20215 yr by dikkeduif

I’m still having major issues keeping this plane from swinging wildly side to side once I’ve landed and begin stopping regardless of rudder settings or assists, I do not see this behavior with all planes - the default G36 doesn’t do it nor does that nice pay ware Italian/German prop - so there may be something JustFlight needs to fix?

1 hour ago, Republic DC9 said:

I’m still having major issues keeping this plane from swinging wildly side to side once I’ve landed and begin stopping regardless of rudder settings or assists, I do not see this behavior with all planes - the default G36 doesn’t do it nor does that nice pay ware Italian/German prop - so there may be something JustFlight needs to fix?

I fly only the Arrow for weeks , usually several flights a day, and including sessions of touch and goes. I don't have the wild swings on landings, usually on the center line.  I do use rudder assist all the time with that aircraft. 

I can steer all planes on the runway rather effortlessly during takeoff I use, C152, C172, Vertigo, DA42, Power Solo, A320, CJ4 and I love the JF Piper Arrow, but is almost impossible to steer the Arrow correctly on the runway, even without any wind, I overcorrect and go wildly from left to right and vice versa.