I am sorry, but I just have to vent here for a minute. I've been looking for some nice FSX add-on aircraft for starters and, guess what, a lot of developers don't seem to do discounts and charge the full price for the same aircraft or add-ons, just by making it "FSX-compatible". No cross-upgrade, not even a discount.FSUIPC and Eaglesoft disappoint the most. I have always loved their products and have been a huge supporter, but I refuse to pay again full price for something that I have purchased less than a year ago. My proud "Eaglesoft supporter" signature is now gone. I could understand, if there were some upgrades or new functionality, but I refuse to pay full price for a "minimal-effort compatibility update". This is a prime example of greedy developers trying to cash in.Virtually ALL professional Windows developers offer free upgrades or updates -or- for a drastically discounted price. Apparently the clocks are ticking differently for FS developers.It's a different story for PMDG, because it's going to be almost a complete re-write (for example the 737). They even have a wiki on how to port their B1900x's to FSX for free. Horray to HifiSim, Flight1, FSBuild and Carenado for their free updates. Shame on you, Eaglesoft and FSUIPC.Sorry for the vent, but this had to come out.

In general, I agree except in the case of FSUIPC. He has been continually introducing new versions for years and I don't mind giving him a little more cash. Think of it this way, you pay now and you will get update after update for free for the next 3 years. Nonetheless, you do have a right to your opinion. As I said, I do agree for the most part.BTW, do you have a link for the PMDG B1900 info?

From my limited knowledge of creating flight sim products, I believe that you probably have about the same knowledge. Your comment "minimal-effort compatibility update" pretty much confirms this. From everything that I've heard/read from the developers of add-ons, it is very clear that FSX is a totally different program than previous versions. Therefore, 100s of hours are required to update, (and in some cases), a total re-build of the product is needed to make them FSX compatible.I'm sure you would not want to spend 100s of hours of your time and not be compensated in some manner.Darrell

I suggest you try developing an addon for FSX and then come back and rant. Some products port over fine with no fixes needed (carenado) others have tons of issues, usually with gauges, etc. There is a huge difference between FSX "compatible" and "designed for".I see this in areas other than FS, and the bottom line is you don't have to get it if you choose. It amazes me how one minute you can be a supporter of a group and then not, based on a legit business decision, oh well.I just had this happen in one of my CGI design hobbies. The main company came out with a new base 3D mesh figure and none of the old addons for the existing model work with the new one....I have 100's of $$ invested in the old one, but the new one is so much better. They could have mapped the new figure the same but didn't due to the new way taking advantage of new tech, and it was a business decision.Regards, MichaelKDFW

Asus A8N32-SLI Deluxe nForce4 SLI-x16 / AMD

With all do respect a few of the developers are offering free upgrades such as Real Air and the SF260. In order to get a fully compatible FSX aircraft there is a charge. I would expect that some of the developers may or may not follow. The bottom line is that they are in business to make a profit as I'm sure your employer is. I have never seen a product developed for FS9 that was advertised as "free upgrade to FSX" Did you get a free upgrade to FSX? Craig

I am sorry, but I tend to disagree. I do not know the inner workings of FS9/FSX, but I highly doubt that an update to FSX would require a lot of effort unless it has been developed in a highly proprietary format. The most important features have already been developed for FS9. It doubt very much that it is a total rewrite for FSX, unless I can see improved textures and improved functionality, especially for FSX. Both is not the case here. For example, the PMDG B1900C, which is not a whole lot less complex than an Eaglesoft add-on can easily be ported to FSX - for free.I don't have to do upgrade my Photoshop, CD-burning program or other payware programs for Vista - why should I for FSX? For the *same* product that I already own for FS9! Yes, I would be willing for a compatility upgrade (maybe 50%), but not full price. Totally unreasonable.As for FSUPIC - most of the free updates have been bug fixes with limited additional programming functionality that is not a whole lot of use for me - the end-user.I don't want to be negative vibe or controversy here, but I just find it unreasonable and I will vote with my "non-purchase". Noone said that people should work for free. I am willing to compensate for the effort, but I categorically refuse to pay for the *same* product twice. It seems to work just fine for other developers, like Carenado, HifiSim and PMDG. I feel there is a fine line here between developers who try to keep their customers and others who just try to cash in.A "legit" business decision would have been to offer me an upgrade as a discounted price for the *same* product that I already paid for. Yes, my support vanishes in a heartbeart, if I feel ripped off, because I simply cannot agree or identify with it. Some people pull their support for even minor reasons, like a small add-on in an EULA or license (esp. with Linux - KDE/QT, SuSE/Novell). Years ago, I was a fan of the first Papa Tango products and withdrew when it mutated into the most controversial FS rip-off, called Ariane. I withdrew support from PSS after the Airbus series, because charging for liveries and at the same time legally preventing enthousiats to develop their own and making them available via Avsim is just really boring and a case for the kindergarten economist.Would you buy a CD and later buy the *same* album on iTunes, just to load it in your iPod? Probably not.

No, I didn't get a free upgrade to FSX, but I will get an upgrade for Vista. I will get upgrade pricing for the next version of Cubase, the next version of Photoshop and the next version of Nero. And those products are typically improved and sport a ton of new features!What is next? Make me pay for a bugfix?I also got 3 or 4(!) free updates for Active Sky, FSBuild, most of the Carenado aircraft. I get upgrade pricing from FS2Crew and many other developers. I want to hear the outcry of the community, if Macromedia would charge full price for the same version of Dreamweaver "made compatible for Vista". This ain't a compatilibility upgrade from Windows to MacOS.I am sure that only a tiny fraction of developers work as a full-time FS addon developer or distributor, because then we would see a lot of permanently unemployed people here who just silently vanish from the FS community, but *still* have their products for sale. Active Camera/Anticyclone anyone? Lago? FSHotSeat?

http://ops.precisionmanuals.com/wiki/PMDG_Express_FAQ

Didn't even know about that carenado freebie. Thanks for the heads up on that one as i love my cherokee 180 and now its working smoothly in fsx. :) I did have to create all the thumbnail.jpg files for them myself so that a proper pic would show up in the aircraft choose menu but other than that they work just as good as they do in fs9. Thanks for the freebie carenado!

The Market will respond appropriately.These are not essential items like water and food during tornado where vendors are hording and price gauging. Now, that is something to rail against.Flight Sim addons? Well... you just either buy from them or you don't. what do you say to someone standing on the street complaining about the absurd price hike of luxuary cars? Thats about it. Professional marketeers know how to market their products... amateurs don't. Max unit price does not mean maximum profit. On the other hand..if you have a monopoly like FSUIPC...all bets are off. I would have bought that thing even if it were $100.:)Manny

>I am sorry, but I just have to vent here for a minute. I've>been looking for some nice FSX add-on aircraft for starters>and, guess what, a lot of developers don't seem to do>discounts and charge the full price for the same aircraft or>add-ons, just by making it "FSX-compatible". No cross-upgrade,>not even a discount.>>Virtually ALL professional Windows developers offer free>upgrades or updates -or- for a drastically discounted price.>Apparently the clocks are ticking differently for FS>developers.>>It's a different story for PMDG, because it's going to be>almost a complete re-write (for example the 737). They even>have a wiki on how to port their B1900x's to FSX for free.>Horray to HifiSim, Flight1, FSBuild and Carenado for their>free updates. Shame on you, Eaglesoft and FSUIPC.I agree. I don't mind paying a percentage of the price, but i think its unacceptable to pay the same amount again, for what is in effect the same product, working in a different engine. I agree that where there is a complete or substantial rewrite then I'll pay full price again.

Like Jeff above, I agree with most of what your saying, except in regards to FSUIPC. That was a complete rewrite of code. That's why Version 4+ is not compatible with FS2004. and vice versa with version 3.7+. This was neccessary to link with FSX's simconnect features, and still establish the links for the developers that use FSUIPC. Plus you still can download and use it free, so it doesn't prevent you from using any of your addons that link to it, even if you don't buy it. You just won't have the configuration setting options. If Peter was in it just for the cash, he could easily made it that you had to buy it.

> On the other hand..if you have a monopoly like FSUIPC...all bets are off.Not necessarily. From a quick overview of the new SimConnect SDK, I would expect a trend that a lot of developers will use just SimConnect, instead of FSUIPC. At least that's what I am hoping for. FSUIPC has become popular because there was no real alternative. The tables seem to have shifted now. We shall see. ;)

Indeed regarding simconnect, that's true. Aces intends it to eventually supplant the need for FSUIPC, having recognized that Pete's module was very nearly essential to get the most out of FS9.If you spend any time reading Pete's forum, you'll soon discover that he didn't really want to do an FSUIPC4, but Aces pretty much begged him to have one more kick at the can, to ease our transition into fsx. FSUIPC is still an utterly amazing addon and I'd enjoy my simming a fair bit less without it, but registration of it has never been required. The free version is pretty functional. Pete has the best and fastest support I've ever seen from any developer too, even going so far as to actually add something quite complex to the module (helicopter pitch trim) that I alone wanted, simply because I asked him to. If that's not cool, I don't know what is. Hence I was happy to buy fsuipc for fsx as well.As for the rest of the developers, the OP does have a good point, but if you break down their profits into an hourly rate I doubt they're making millions on addons or their upgrades. It's as much a labour of love as of compensation for most I'd bet.Just my two cents. :)

Short rant about cheap and ignorant consumers:You don't want to pay, enjoy the default stuff.Simple, no forum post needed.Was anything *promised* to you? The ignorance shown by the OP is amazing. Please direct me to the "Auto-port FS9 addon to FSX" program, I'd love to see it.Amazing.