Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
martin-w

Pentagon confirm more UFO footage.

Recommended Posts

50 minutes ago, martin-w said:

A hyper advanced alien species,  (they would have to be)  capable of reaching this planet,  would have advanced way beyond digging the dirt for resources, even we ourselves are starting to use robots more for such tasks, an advanced alien species would have perfected such automation. Its important to realise how hard it is (may be impossible) to create a technology that can traverse 1000's of lightyears in a reasonable time frame. Any species that achieved that would regard our technology as utterly primitive. 

Yes, utterly primitive and ripe for exploitation.  Why build expensive robots and transport them half way across the galaxy when they have available labor right here?

I doubt economics would be any different anywhere in the universe where humanoids lived.

And since we are so far toward the edge of the Milky Way wouldn't interplanetary explorers go toward the center of the galaxy where there are more abundant planets to explore?

1 hour ago, martin-w said:

We can only speculates at this point as to what an alien species might look like or how their brains would function, or what their motivations and behaviour patterns might be. 

I think when we speculate in this area we use whatever data we have based on our own history and development.  I personally doubt that any species that developed as far as we have and beyond would be much different than us.  Superficially they adapt to the amount of light and gravity on the planet(s) they evolved on like larger or smaller eyes and body size.  But I believe their thinking pattern and behavior would be more like us.  They would have the same drive for knowledge and the same economic drives that made us evolve to the state at which we are now.

But as you say, we are just speculating.  I speculate on a more greed based society like ours than a pie in the sky one of service and peace that we only dream about.  I think they would have politicians and corporate robber barons with the 'what's in it for me' attitudes just like we have.

It's the Elon Musk's that drive for wealth and power rather than philanthropists like Bill Gates that sit in the driver's seat.

Noel   

 

 


The tires are worn.  The shocks are shot.  The steering is wobbly.  But the engine still runs fine.

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, birdguy said:

Yes, utterly primitive and ripe for exploitation.  Why build expensive robots and transport them half way across the galaxy when they have available labor right here?

I doubt economics would be any different anywhere in the universe where humanoids lived.

 

 

I doubt robotic technology from a species 100's 1000's maybe even a million years ahead of us would be expensive, it would be a perfected technology readily available and cheap.  And as I said, there would be no need to come here for resources. The asteroid belts of the multitude of systems out there are jam packed with resources. A space faring species doesn't have to take over a planet to get them.

You cant say economics would be the same as here. They may not even have money, a species  far more advanced than us. 

But that comment on automated technology was an "in addition" the important pointes were the ones you didn't mention. Namely, they wouldn't need to come here because...

 

Quote

As for running out of resources, that doesn't really apply to a hyper advanced species that can travel at relativistic speeds to reach us. They would be at a level of technological development that would be astounding. So they wouldn't need resources like we do, in fact they would have the capability to manipulate matter on the atomic scale and turn anything into anything. They wouldn't need what we regard as vital resources.

 

it really is important to understand what is involved in travelling faster than light, In fact our understanding tells us its impossible. The only way to do it would be to cheat with some kind of Alcubierre drive. But that would require absolutely colossal amounts of energy. The first calculations suggested it would take the energy of the entire galaxy. Since then the energy requirements have been reduced but they are still unfathomably colossal. 

So the point, is that to do something like that would require unbelievably advanced technology. And an unbelievably advanced technology doesn't worry about resources, they make their own, they manipulate matter on the atomic scale and make whatever they want from whatever they want. All they need is energy. Or they visit their local asteroid belt. They don't need our planets resources or to come here. 

 

3 hours ago, birdguy said:

I think when we speculate in this area we use whatever data we have based on our own history and development.

 

Which doesn't give us an accurate idea of what a species 1000 years or more in advance of us ( and biologically entirely different maybe not even based on DNA or carbon) would think or do. Or how they would run their society. We have to be more creative than that if we are to speculate. We have to consider "the great filter" and why the galaxy shows no evidence of advanced alien life. What is the great filter? Is it the fact that a species destroys itself because they are violent? Like us? If they aren't violent, are they more likely to survive long enough to develop FTL tech and get here? 

 

3 hours ago, birdguy said:

But as you say, we are just speculating.  I speculate on a more greed based society like ours than a pie in the sky one of service and peace that we only dream about.  I think they would have politicians and corporate robber barons with the 'what's in it for me' attitudes just like we have.

 

And would a society like that last long enough, thousands of year, until it was advanced enough to develop faster than light travel? Would a society like that last long enough and not destroy itself in conflict, long enough to develop faster than light travel?  If the answer is no, then they couldn't get here. 

If on the other hand a society developed a better system and stopped killing each other and became non-violent, and started to look after their planet... could they last long enough to develop faster than light travel and get here? I would say that's more likely than the malevolent, greedy society. 

 

Quote

It's the Elon Musk's that drive for wealth and power rather than philanthropists like Bill Gates that sit in the driver's seat.

 

Doesn't matter who's in the driving seat. If we don't stop killing each other in wars and learn to be non-violent, benevolent, we aren't going to last long enough to develop the capability to reach other stars. 

Edited by martin-w

Share this post


Link to post

Some more reading on this...

 

 

Quote

 

Aliens come to Earth for some other raw material

If not water, then maybe there’s some other natural resource that aliens might invade the Earth to exploit. Perhaps they intend to wipe away our cities and begin strip-mining the crust of the planet for ores to extract metals and build more vast spaceships. But in fact, because the Earth formed from a molten state with iron sinking down to the core, our planet’s crust is actually pretty depleted of useful metals like iron, nickel, platinum, tungsten and gold. And as with the water, it’s hard to see why aliens would bother extracting material against the gravity of the Earth when the asteroids are composed of the same basic rocky stuff. In fact, some asteroids are believed to be essentially pure lumps of metal—they were once the cores of protoplanets that were smashed apart again by the colossal collisions in the early history of the solar system. Several companies are already proposing to launch asteroid mining operations to exploit these exceedingly valuable resources.

 

 

https://lithub.com/why-would-aliens-even-bother-with-earth/

 

Quote

Alien races enslaving each other is a common trope of many science fiction universes. While enslavement of defeated enemies or other vulnerable populations has regrettably been a common feature of our history on Earth, it’s hard to see why a species with the capability of voyaging between the stars, and therefore having already demonstrated the mastery of a highly advanced level of machinery and of marshaling energy resources, would have any need for slaves. Constructing robots, or other forms of automation or mechanization, would be a far more effective solution for labor—people are feeble in comparison, harder to fix, and need to be fed.

 

Share this post


Link to post

Any nearby (relatively) determinedly unfriendly super-civilization that perhaps doesn't like the idea of competition, is much more likely to just wipe us out with one, or a few. cheap relativistic kill vehicle(s).

(Something the size of a car, striking earth at a large percentage of the speed of light would do it)

All problems solved.

Next!

In fact, if a superior civilization wished us ill, we would probably never even know what hit us, before we were all prematurely deceased, and there is absolutely nothing we could do about it.

So worrying is pointless.

We just have to hope all the silence out there is not being punctuated every few hundred (or thousand) years by the death screams of noisy civilizations like ours, calling attention to ourselves in a bad neighborhood..... 👽


We are all connected..... To each other, biologically...... To the Earth, chemically...... To the rest of the Universe atomically.
 
Devons rig
Intel Core i5 13600K @ 5.1GHz / G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Series Ram 32GB / GIGABYTE GeForce RTX 4070 Ti GAMING OC 12G Graphics Card / Sound Blaster Z / Meta Quest 2 VR Headset / Klipsch® Promedia 2.1 Computer Speakers / ASUS ROG SWIFT PG279Q ‑ 27" IPS LED Monitor ‑ QHD / 1x Samsung SSD 850 EVO 500GB / 2x Samsung SSD 860 EVO 1TB /  1x Samsung - 970 EVO Plus 2TB NVMe /  1x Samsung 980 NVMe 1TB / 2 other regular hd's with up to 10 terabyte capacity / Windows 11 Pro 64-bit / Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite AX Motherboard LGA 1700 DDR5

Share this post


Link to post
17 minutes ago, HiFlyer said:

(Something the size of a car, striking earth at a large percentage of the speed of light would do it)

Got to make way for an interstellar bypass somehow. 🙃

Share this post


Link to post
33 minutes ago, HiFlyer said:

Something the size of a car, striking earth at a large percentage of the speed of light would do it

Speaking of cars, I wonder what they would make of Elon Musk's Tesla Roadster in space. I hope they don't waste too much time trying to communicate with the driver.

My latest theory is that the UFOs are alien anthropologists who are studying our behaviour prior to making first contact. They are supposed to be undetectable but, in their excitement, they occasionally get careless and we have another sighting.

Edited by dmwalker

Dugald Walker

Share this post


Link to post

It's difficult to imagine that Earth would have any resources which were particularly rare in the universe. It's been a sci-fi trope a few times that invading aliens were after the water, but in reality water isn't a rare commodity since it is simply hydrogen and oxygen, and so far as we know, hydrogen is the most common element in the universe and oxygen is third on the list after helium.

Now the Moon is a different matter; which as we know, is made of cheese, and this is indeed a rare commodity in our galaxy. Although we can take heart in the fact that this will make the Swiss and the French the number one and number two targets for invading aliens once the Moon is depleted of its abundant cheese resources. If on the other hand, the aliens are after chocolate, then we are in big trouble, since they will be after all the planets in the Milky Way, and in particular, Mars. And let's be honest, that little NASA helicopter isn't going to put up much of a fight.

Personally, I like the idea that some Martians are looking at footage of that little helicopter and the rovers and arguing about whether the footage is fake.

Edited by Chock
  • Like 2

Alan Bradbury

Check out my youtube flight sim videos: Here

Share this post


Link to post
29 minutes ago, Chock said:

It's difficult to imagine that Earth would have any resources which were particularly rare in the universe. It's been a sci-fi trope a few times that invading aliens were after the water, but in reality water isn't a rare commodity since it is simply hydrogen and oxygen, and so far as we know, hydrogen is the most common element in the universe and oxygen is third on the list after helium.

Yep, I would think if you're flying around between solar systems looking for water, grabbing a couple comets in the Oort Cloud (of this or any other solar system) would be easier than landing on Earth and carrying it off somewhere. And likewise, for most other minerals, asteroid belts would probably be a better source.

30 minutes ago, Chock said:

Personally, I like the idea that some Martians are looking at footage of that little helicopter and the rovers and arguing about whether the footage is fake.

As long as they aren't upset about us blocking their views and planning to blow us up.

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, dmwalker said:

My latest theory is that the UFOs are alien anthropologists who are studying our behaviour prior to making first contact. They are supposed to be undetectable but, in their excitement, they occasionally get careless and we have another sighting.

That's the best guess so far.  

But why would an advanced civilization capable of warp speed even want to come here if not for some profit motive?  I don't buy the benevolent 'we want to help you' motive.

Like someone else mentioned if they are that more advanced than we are we are just organism in a Petri dish; or at most a species of the great apes.

Noel


The tires are worn.  The shocks are shot.  The steering is wobbly.  But the engine still runs fine.

Share this post


Link to post
6 minutes ago, birdguy said:

That's the best guess so far.  

I'm voting for time traveling historians, scientists and etc. Here to observe and document our civilization just before and after the upcoming Nuclear wars...

Edit: Or maybe an upcoming near extinction level asteroid strike...

Edited by HiFlyer

We are all connected..... To each other, biologically...... To the Earth, chemically...... To the rest of the Universe atomically.
 
Devons rig
Intel Core i5 13600K @ 5.1GHz / G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Series Ram 32GB / GIGABYTE GeForce RTX 4070 Ti GAMING OC 12G Graphics Card / Sound Blaster Z / Meta Quest 2 VR Headset / Klipsch® Promedia 2.1 Computer Speakers / ASUS ROG SWIFT PG279Q ‑ 27" IPS LED Monitor ‑ QHD / 1x Samsung SSD 850 EVO 500GB / 2x Samsung SSD 860 EVO 1TB /  1x Samsung - 970 EVO Plus 2TB NVMe /  1x Samsung 980 NVMe 1TB / 2 other regular hd's with up to 10 terabyte capacity / Windows 11 Pro 64-bit / Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite AX Motherboard LGA 1700 DDR5

Share this post


Link to post
21 minutes ago, birdguy said:

But why would an advanced civilization capable of warp speed even want to come here if not for some profit motive?  I don't buy the benevolent 'we want to help you' motive.

Scientific interest. I would think even a highly advanced civilisation could still be curious about other lifeforms in the universe, just as a scientist here might study the patterns of activity in a beehive. Profit motive might get us to Mars but the discovery of bacteria there would create a lot of purely scientific interest.

  • Like 1

Dugald Walker

Share this post


Link to post

I was thinkin about StarTrek NG.  Wouldn't the prime directive prevent an advanced culture from helping us technologywise or from interfering with our social problems?

Noel


The tires are worn.  The shocks are shot.  The steering is wobbly.  But the engine still runs fine.

Share this post


Link to post
48 minutes ago, birdguy said:

I was thinkin about StarTrek NG.  Wouldn't the prime directive prevent an advanced culture from helping us technologywise or from interfering with our social problems?

Only if they had that as part of their own laws or policies. Also from Star Trek NG, and the opposite of the Federation, is the Borg. Don't think they cared about non-interference.

One of the biggest problems with this debate is that we only have one data point to reference regarding intelligent species, us. Did others evolve the same way we did? More like a colony of ants? Or something else like a hydrozoan, such as the Portuguese man o' war? They could well be greedy, benevolent, or maybe they would be completely indifferent to us and treat us a curiosity before moving on.

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, goates said:

They could well be greedy, benevolent, or maybe they would be completely indifferent to us and treat us a curiosity before moving on

Hopefully they won't find us to be a scrumptious delicacy!


We are all connected..... To each other, biologically...... To the Earth, chemically...... To the rest of the Universe atomically.
 
Devons rig
Intel Core i5 13600K @ 5.1GHz / G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Series Ram 32GB / GIGABYTE GeForce RTX 4070 Ti GAMING OC 12G Graphics Card / Sound Blaster Z / Meta Quest 2 VR Headset / Klipsch® Promedia 2.1 Computer Speakers / ASUS ROG SWIFT PG279Q ‑ 27" IPS LED Monitor ‑ QHD / 1x Samsung SSD 850 EVO 500GB / 2x Samsung SSD 860 EVO 1TB /  1x Samsung - 970 EVO Plus 2TB NVMe /  1x Samsung 980 NVMe 1TB / 2 other regular hd's with up to 10 terabyte capacity / Windows 11 Pro 64-bit / Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite AX Motherboard LGA 1700 DDR5

Share this post


Link to post
56 minutes ago, HiFlyer said:

Hopefully they won't find us to be a scrumptious delicacy!

Wasn't there a Twilight Zone about that once?

An alien race landed on Earth for the purpose of helping us out with new technology.  They invited any humans who wished to visit their planet.  They had weekly trips and lots of volunteers.

One of them had left a book on a desk at the United Nations or some organization.  When we finally got it translated it was a cook book.  The title was 'To serve Humanity'.

Noel

Edited by birdguy
  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

The tires are worn.  The shocks are shot.  The steering is wobbly.  But the engine still runs fine.

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
  • Tom Allensworth,
    Founder of AVSIM Online


  • Flight Simulation's Premier Resource!

    AVSIM is a free service to the flight simulation community. AVSIM is staffed completely by volunteers and all funds donated to AVSIM go directly back to supporting the community. Your donation here helps to pay our bandwidth costs, emergency funding, and other general costs that crop up from time to time. Thank you for your support!

    Click here for more information and to see all donations year to date.
×
×
  • Create New...