You want to hear something scary ?

[jarmstro 2,404]

You did. Read the thread Degraded graphics after SU5. Still load of graphical issues though...

[Janov 2,383]

21 hours ago, rka said:

I use Vulkan since day one and I'm happy with it, but it was definitely not a walk in the park to get it up to speed in XP.

Maybe a difference was that the whole transition to Vulkan (and I agree with you, it was a fairly tedious process) was on voluntary, opt-in beta versions, only.

One not only had to opt-in to join the betas, one ALSO had the possibility to switch back to the older OpenGL renderer in the GUI settings to get back the same stable simulation that 11.4x offered.

I would think that if SU5 had been an "open beta", the dissatisfaction here would be less.

[rka 916]

6 minutes ago, Janov said:

Maybe a difference was that the whole transition to Vulkan (and I agree with you, it was a fairly tedious process) was on voluntary, opt-in beta versions, only.

One not only had to opt-in to join the betas, one ALSO had the possibility to switch back to the older OpenGL renderer in the GUI settings to get back the same stable simulation that 11.4x offered.

I would think that if SU5 had been an "open beta", the dissatisfaction here would be less.

Yeah that's true. This would definitely be welcomed by lots of people. I see why this is heavy lifting regarding all the data from different sources and everything though. They could just test their updates longer before they push them out, this would obviously also help 😄

Then again, IMO this is still an open beta in general and as we can see, it hasn't yet left that phase even with XBox release. My experience is great though and better than with su4.

[Gary1124 181]

21 hours ago, swiesma said:

Believe it or not. Some time ago someone crashed into my M2. 
 

Guess what? The shop fixed it after 1 week and I got over 2000€ on top for the trouble and reduction of value. 
 

Hobby or not - it’s a complex piece of Software and it should run on everyone’s machine. 
I mean. Did you ever have a look at the hardware section in this forum and see how dummies overclock/undervolten their machines?

And then they end up here… crying….

Give the guys at Asobo some days to fix their sh*t, go out and have an icecream meanwhile. 

I wish insurance company's here in the States were that generous. 2000 euro covering reduction in value. We're your repairs covered with no deductible? I wish your insurer came over here. Sweet.

[Kilo60 660]

On 7/31/2021 at 12:33 PM, marsman2020 said:

The idea was it would be 10 years of improvements on a solid working base, not 10 years of scatterbrained updates that break the entire sim and no solid base in sight.

Unfortunately and sadly you are 100% correct!

[PlumCrazy 228]

I actually felt SU4 was a sufficiently solid base.  Obviously there were still some bugs to be ironed out, but even with those issues, I rarely failed to come out of a VR flight thinking to myself what an amazing experience it was.  Flying felt so lifelike and immersive, I truly was able to lose myself in suspended disbelief.  Now after SU5 I have had to disable many of the mods that made the sim great, accept the fact the graphics have been downgraded significantly, put up with many newly introduced bugs and pray each flight doesn't end in a premature CTD.  The immersion, even in VR, is largely gone.  I have no doubt most of the bugs will eventually get sorted and developers of 3rd party add-ons will update to SU5 compatibility.  What I find most frustrating is the obvious and intentional downgrade of sim features and graphics - presumably to allow lower end systems (like X-Box S) to run the same sim as those with powerful PC systems.  Obviously this SHOULD have been achieved by utilizing sliders/options, so each user could customize the sim to his/her own hardware (that seemed to work fine up through SU4).  But unfortunately, those options/sliders seem to now have little effect, and many PC users with relatively current CPU/GPUs are seeing nowhere near 100% utilization of their hardware when maxing all settings to ultra.  I fear many of the downgrades introduced in SU5 will never be "fixed", as they were intentionally introduced by Asobo and thus, are not "bugs" at all.

I now look back in amazement that we were all (myself included) anxiously awaiting the release of SU5 last week.  We fell for the false marketing that via some magic of programming, we would suddenly gain significant FPS while giving up nothing.  It was indeed... too good to be true.

I really do wonder now why MSFS does not say "Checking for downgrades" at startup.  That would seem much more accurate... 

[Noel 4,504]

24 minutes ago, PlumCrazy said:

I actually felt SU4 was a sufficiently solid base.  

I now look back in amazement that we were all (myself included) anxiously awaiting the release of SU5 last week.  We fell for the false marketing that via some magic of programming, we would suddenly gain significant FPS while giving up nothing.  It was indeed... too good to be true.

It was, and guess what, it still is--it's just parked aside as they complete the Xbox release and follow up fine tuning.  For all anyone knows here, they may now be largely done w/ the Xbox version as they are clearly close to running out of resources in Xbox to exploit. 

I always questioned how far 'optimizations' could go and assumed we would definitely see the impact as the performance increases inc VRAM/SYSRAM in use went as improved as much as it did.  If you look at the typical TOTAL of VRAM and SYSRAM in use in Win10 now in SU5 it's about exactly what Xbox SX has on board.  Modern gaming PCs have so much more SYSRAM to exploit, and some w/ more VRAM, so its plausible, while XBox SX allocates 10Gb of VRAM of its 16Gb, it may need to use more of that 10Gb of VRAM as SYSRAM.  Or they're saving some for DX-12 implementation on Xbox.  So they're fine tuning for Xbox still very likely, but as I say soon will be about done with that because there will be no more resources to exploit on Xbox, yet lots more in Win 10 PCs.  10 year project, dual platforms, have said they won't abandon the hard core veteran flight simmer.   

[PlumCrazy 228]

53 minutes ago, Noel said:

It was, and guess what, it still is--it's just parked aside as they complete the Xbox release and follow up fine tuning.  For all anyone knows here, they may now be largely done w/ the Xbox version as they are clearly close to running out of resources in Xbox to exploit. 

 

It would be nice if the PC version wasn't getting trashed while being "parked".  I was quite pleased with MSFS SU4, and would have had no issues if Asobo "parked" that exact version while they concentrated on bringing the XBox version to market.  Instead, it seems in many ways SU4 was "downgraded" (not parked) to SU5 for the very reasons you mentioned above - to match XBox hardware requirements.
 

[Noel 4,504]

20 hours ago, PlumCrazy said:

It would be nice if the PC version wasn't getting trashed while being "parked".  I was quite pleased with MSFS SU4, and would have had no issues if Asobo "parked" that exact version while they concentrated on bringing the XBox version to market.  Instead, it seems in many ways SU4 was "downgraded" (not parked) to SU5 for the very reasons you mentioned above - to match XBox hardware requirements.
 

"Parked" was rhetorical--it's going to be one version w/ branches according to platform because the vast majority of it is shared between both platforms very clearly.   It's a very big endeavor especially in dual platforms so IMM it's still early.  Asobo met their launch date and now hopefully sooner than later they can resume development for Win 10 branch, which is plausible in light of the fact PC is where there untapped resources remain in larger share.  I just completed my 3rd flight in P3D after many months of non use and it's been fun but so different I already miss MSFS, and speaking of that I'm going to try another MSFS flight right now applying the requisite adjustments to improve default as much as able.  It's certainly not all bad but it is a downturn for sure, especially clouds and coloration to some degree.  What I'm still very excited about is the serious headroom for CPU and GPU and VRAM now, and of course I hope those resources get retapped once again.

[ADamiani 470]

1 hour ago, Noel said:

"Parked" was rhetorical--it's going to be one version w/ branches according to platform because the vast majority of it is shared between both platforms very clearly.   It's a very big endeavor especially in dual platforms so IMM it's still early.  Asobo met their launch date and now hopefully sooner than later they can resume development for Win 10 branch, which is plausible in light of the fact PC is where there untapped resources remain in larger share.  I just completed my 3rd flight in P3D after many months of non use and it's been fun but so different I already miss MSFS, and speaking of that I'm going to try another MSFS flight right now applying the requisite adjustments to improve default as much as able.  It's certainly not all bad but it is a downturn for sure, especially clouds and coloration to some degree.  What I'm still very excited about is the serious headroom for CPU and GPU and VRAM now, and of course I hope those resources get retapped once again.

That's what we all hope. I saw sysmem usage up to 34 GB one day, I find it hard to believe that it was so inefficient that the same result can be obtained with today's footprint.

If only the devs said: "Ok, SU5 was for the 'boxes, now we fork the source code and PC users will get back to a great simulator"

Why don't they?

A.