You want to hear something scary ?

[marsman2020 1,310]

16 minutes ago, blueshark747 said:

Well most likely yes! The first two or three years of trial and error development for this sim should be expected by now by consumers.

Why?  It is advertised as a complete and ready to use product.  Not "early access" or "beta" or anything along those lines. 

What we get is barely an Alpha....

[simbol 5,821]

7 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

I do not think they can do that. Please Simbol/Jean Luc correct me if I am wrong. The MFS servers continuously send us data which have loosely speaking a format adapted to the last version. They cannot have a multitude of versions at the user level. Of maybe they can but it would be a very large headache to manage. They need us to be at the same level. Hence the necessity of cleaner updates.

Exactly, it is the issue with streaming platforms.. You require everyone on the same version or at least as close as possible.

At the end of the day, it is about their preferred way to work..They have the right to enforce updates in order to reduce their workload / running costs.

S.

[RXP 2,338]

13 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

They cannot have a multitude of versions at the user level. Of maybe they can but it would be a very large headache to manage. They need us to be at the same level. Hence the necessity of cleaner updates.

Take this with a grain of salt, but I believe it is a mandatory requirement for anything releasing on Xbox (or PS, same policies): you can only have 1 current version for everyone (except PlayFab for devs which are allowing them to remotely enable/disable already coded features and managing special builds for a screened audience)

In my opinion it is not much about streaming data format/protocol, but more about policies.

Edited July 31, 2021 by RXP

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

You can run the game on older versions of files, but with limitations of course, we even created MODS in older versions to get around problems which used old files, so as always, it depends. There is a VFS that can definitely be used to run a lot of different versions of various files, they are not forced to keep everyone's files exactly the same otherwise the idea of the community folder and VFS wouldn't exist.

There are limitations to how far you can override files using the MS-VFS obvious, but the reason running different versions has to work somewhat is because the airports and original third-party stuff started being developed way back.

So there are limitations to just how many changes they can make, because they'd have to add an interpreter to read the CGL and BGL files or whatever properly if they keep making too many changes. They can change the parser but then it'd add a lot of overhead if they make it too ridiculously different from the first version.

I think we've really only had to recompile the airports with minor adjustments, never like a total recompile, though this time it is probably going to take pretty much exactly that.

 

Edited July 31, 2021 by Alpine Scenery

[blueshark747 1,843]

9 minutes ago, marsman2020 said:

Why?  It is advertised as a complete and ready to use product.  Not "early access" or "beta" or anything along those lines. 

What we get is barely an Alpha....

Its certainly was an alpha we paid into!
We were given time window to either stay on the MSFS rollercoaster or get off and refund on both distribution platforms. We have chosen to stay. That was your decision with this product!

 

Edited July 31, 2021 by blueshark747

[March Hare 720]

33 minutes ago, Alpine Scenery said:

It was for where I was flying, that is my opinion, except for the floating orbs. It was definitely NOT comparable to how it looks now, it was far better.

IMO, there is a lot of supposition in this thread. I don't see Asobo rewriting the DirectX 12 implementation from the Forza engine, Microsoft is going to use their DirectX team to port that part for them, or at least give them the abilities. It's likely already been done, MSFS likely already has a DirectX 12 build API they are experimenting with, they will just need to fix certain things. 

Asobo is not really a game engine developer AFIK, they may have developed one or two very simplified engines in their day, but nothing I recall that was anything complex like this engine. Even though Asobo is the developer, they did not develop the engine at all. The game engine came from the Forza and Direct X and Take 10 team, not Asobo.

I am seriously not sure where some of this stuff is even coming from, unless like everything I have ever read is wrong.

I'll just leave this here: https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/3d-engine-ace-asobo-conception-engine

I already knew they had developed their own engine before quickly searching for an article. Used in their open-world driving game, and now the flight sim. Not to say they haven't amalgamated engines for different aspects of the sim.

[steve 86 287]

26 minutes ago, marsman2020 said:

Why?  It is advertised as a complete and ready to use product.  Not "early access" or "beta" or anything along those lines. 

What we get is barely an Alpha....

very true, felt like a early access alpha build since day one, 

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

4 minutes ago, March Hare said:

I'll just leave this here: https://www.mobygames.com/game-group/3d-engine-ace-asobo-conception-engine

I already knew they had developed their own engine before quickly searching for an article. Used in their open-world driving game, and now the flight sim. Not to say they haven't amalgamated engines for different aspects of the sim.

That's right, they developed that FUEL engine a LONG time ago, I said they developed a couple. That said, this Forza engine is really a monster complicated engine way beyond that. They abandoned game engine development in general AFIK. A lot of companies are kind of slowly abandoning engine development, as it's a lot of work.

Edited July 31, 2021 by Alpine Scenery

[March Hare 720]

1 minute ago, FSUK_86 said:

very true, felt like a early access alpha build since day one, 

A bit like No Man's Sky, and that developer has seriously turned things round with their free updates over a few years.

[wim123 763]

53 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

Please let me know your settings and specs. Believe me I see what is now no more than console quality graphics. Gone are the lovely lighting, shadows and textures. It looks like  a computer game.

but it IS a computergame , mr jarmstro.

without an xbox version there would not have been a pc version at all.

[March Hare 720]

1 minute ago, Alpine Scenery said:

That's right, they developed that FUEL engine, I said they developed a couple. That said, this Forza engine is really a monster complicated engine way beyond that. As I said, they abandoned game engine development in general AFIK. 

I'm pretty sure they had a job position for an engine programmer, so I don't think they have abandoned it.

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

45 minutes ago, March Hare said:

I'm pretty sure they had a job position for an engine programmer, so I don't think they have abandoned it.

They need people with engine programming skills to make some of these LOD type changes.

I knew bout the FUEL engine, but that was not a very large project compared to this.

Also, they were joint projects between them and DirectX team even back then, that's how Microsoft got to know Asobo in the first place was in doing joint projects and giving them DirectX support and stuff, and giving them paid projects to do joint releases when Microsoft was just acting more as the publisher / advertiser.

 

Edited July 31, 2021 by Alpine Scenery

[wim123 763]

32 minutes ago, marsman2020 said:

Why?  It is advertised as a complete and ready to use product.  Not "early access" or "beta" or anything along those lines. 

What we get is barely an Alpha....

you really could have known this if only you had looked at the roadmap, it was there.

this sim wont be ever without issues, i am betting, they get solved, others are created, etc etc.

a bit like eso(elder scrolls online) and there too many ppl complaining, but for most its okish

[March Hare 720]

5 minutes ago, wim123 said:

but it IS a computergame , mr jarmstro

Exactly. There is a quite frankly condescending and uneducated view of consoles here, which to be honest has been around since the beginning of consoles. The Xbox Series X contains customised AMD PC hardware, with some architectural advantages over many home PC builds, and far surpasses my own PC in its capabilities. It is a high-end PC in a different package.

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

Xbox is  good option until NVIDIA and AMD fix this GPU shortage, it's kind of insane to be honest. I have no bad feelings towards XBOX or XBOX users, I just wish Asobo would have given the PC version a bit more cuddly wuddly before throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Xbox is decent but it's locked other than any future XBOX they release with beefed up hardware, so PC advances a lot faster. So in a few years it could be a totally different story.

 

Edited July 31, 2021 by Alpine Scenery