You want to hear something scary ?

[RXP 2,338]

5 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

I miss the word in English, we would say "caisse de résonance" in French (sounding box ?) 

I'd say "so that it amplifies the concerns we're voicing"

Edited July 31, 2021 by RXP
typos

[Kilo60 660]

I don’t understand everyone’s ADD with these constant updates that have shown that they break more than they fix!!!

 

This is a ten year project!  Shelve the game for awhile and come back to it in a year or two when it has matured and there’s tons of options in 3rd party add ons!   Aboso aren’t Fixing this game anytime soon so don’t expect any miracles at this point!

 

If you must play now don’t expect not to be constantly frustrated when things are broken and the game doesn’t work.

 

I just pop in, play briefly, and come back to this game every few weeks for now and don’t let the ton issues bother me anymore…

[Dominique_K 10,150]

6 minutes ago, RXP said:

I believe this would only work if the promise is that every (or at least most) bugs reported during the beta are actually correctled by the time it releases. I can't say more because of NDA... but I've seen some people from the beta telling on the FS2020 forum and elsewhere there were many bugs during SU5 which were reported and now in the release.

And in any case, if the idea is to wait for all bugs to be corrected prior release, this will be contrary to the principle this game is developed with: pushing new features often even if they are not fully implemented, so that it gives some purpose for people to coming back. In other words you'd wait a long time before having new features.

Like any other game, they are fighting for your attention span, which translates into dollars in the long run (DLC etc...). And actually they do succeed in capturing the attention span only by judging the number of new topics per day in the FS2020 vs the P3D forum 🙂

Never been better explained

[MrBitstFlyer 3,875]

1 hour ago, Ricardo41 said:

I take it you make all this up as you go along?

I've completed three flights back to back with 0 issues. I used the Longitude with the WT G3000, easily the combo that taxes my sim the most. Game was smooth. My framerates increased by about 60%

I started the sim  at Aersoft's Paderborn airport and landed at Flightbeam's Biarritz airport.

With my low-spec PC I would never have been able to complete a flight from one addon airport to another. 

So, thank you again, Asobo and Microsoft. Ignore all the naysayers and keep those SUs coming!

Edit: In a previous post I acknowledged that there has been a slight downgrade in visuals - I'll take that as a fair trade for increased performance.

You state you have a low end PC, so naturally any jump in performance is going to be welcomed by you.  You also state you accept a downgrade in visuals for this jump in performance.  From your point of you SU5 has been a welcome upgrade. Why would you need to suggest somebody who did not appreciate a drop in visual quality for a non needed performance jump as a naysayer?

[Claudius_ 326]

Personally I don't like these kind of rants because the sim is updated regularly and regularly it requires testing and a new set up. Nothing wrong with this, any complex machine or software work in the same way, some people want everything immediately like an ordinary McDonald's customer, or XBox guys.🤣

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

It's hard for me to not be bias'd or come off sounding weird because like some others in the forum, I do this stuff for a living. So if I critique, I can come off sounding kind of harsh, but I'm just saying what I think from my own past experiences.

I'll say it anyways, so keep in mind I'm not trying to say I think I have the ultimate fix or anything.

There is an internal problem with the way the communication exists between the senior developers and the junior developers and the roadmap planners, it's very obvious. I can see some mistakes being made that only a programmer with very little experience would even attempt to do or leave in the code, hence they should have rolled back their own code. It's not usually that hard to rollback segmented code (it can be), but not in general when issues arise. If it is that hard to rollback code in a segmented fashion, it means they aren't managing the project correctly, of course there are exceptions (some code has to be move forward only).

There seems to be a Wild West culture here of NEVER use working old code, as if the programmers would actually be frowned upon for doing so. Though I am not fan of not progressing, if you are releasing stuff this fast, it has to be done if you want to maintain a stable environment. When you start seeing the testers reporting too many issues and are on a deadline, you rollback that partitioned section and only release what's absolutely necessary, you don't just force it on everyone. It doesn't solve all the problems, but it definitely makes things a lot more stable.

If they do not want to use rollbacks, then they need proper unit testing, which they don't have. I can tell the code isn't being unit tested, and the only integration testing appears to be the beta testers and us (when it's too late).

There are some very basic principles being violated here, but it's not uncommon in software development to see this happening.

 

Edited July 31, 2021 by Alpine Scenery

[RXP 2,338]

5 minutes ago, Alpine Scenery said:

It's hard for me to not be bias'd or come off sounding weird because like some others in the forum, I do this stuff for a living. So if I critique, I can come off sounding kind of harsh, but I'm just saying what I think from my own past experiences.

I do share your point of view with your explanation on working code, I've also spotted changes between updates in diffing files (in this case JS code) which are clearly code changes breaking previously working code, which shouldn't have been changed at all just be the mere logic of it (I can send you the example in PM if you want).

I'm quoting your sentence above though because I'm 100% with you here: if I critique, I can come of sounding kind of harsh, but I'm just saying what I think from my past experiences too. I've been contributing to building this industry for 20 years, amongst 14 different simulator versions and SDK over 3 major titles (FS, P3D, XP) and this definitely gives me an understanding of the technicalities behind the sims, the coding practices, what the simmers are looking for and want, let alone knowing the history of 2 decades of simulation at the heart is also telling a lot about what does it take, what is working and what is not from a simulation perspective. What I still fail to reconcile somehow is how come MSFT and Asobo is not finding any advantage and profit to using this knowledge for their own benefit (mine is obvious), especially when I see the same mistakes repeating back from 20 years ago in gauges development and SDK...

[Noel 4,504]

1 hour ago, RobJC said:

So dramatic. I wonder if people realize there are real problems in the world right now? You know, like people dying and families burying loved ones? 
 

The phrase “grow up” comes to mind.

This is of course absolutely true.  We use MSFS/P3D to help cope w/ a world full of deep problems all over in more ways than we can even grasp.

[bean_sprout 1,201]

So what's the scary part??

Cheers 

bs

[DylanM 1,069]

1 hour ago, Alpine Scenery said:

There are many big issues and bugs they just randomly created out of thin air, they've quadrupled their work load at least with this patch, unless they scrap some of it.

Since I think you are a developer too, you know what they did, we've all done it...

They started with the tree and it had a good foundational rooting into the ground, they decided they must pull the tree up and add little bits of code in almost every branch of the tree all at once rather than segmenting the most important parts. They went all spaghetti western on the thing. 

This exactly. If they were building an iterative branch for stability and performance (to minimize CTDs…sigh), there was no reason to mess with input or lighting settings in the release.

[edpatino 1,965]

2 hours ago, Dominique_K said:

The MFS roadmap forecasts a SU6 mid-september !

Could somebody with a little influence inject some common sense there and ask them to delay it until the end of the year, fix first the SU5 flaws and  take their time not to pull off another SU5 after Labor day ? 

By the way, I hope that all those in favor of passing rapidly to DX 12 understand now better the reluctance of some of us. Do you imagine the gigantic mess that it is going to be ?

 

Fully agree. Asobo seems to be in a Formula 1 race. To me, is simply a lack of good management and common sense.

Edited July 31, 2021 by edpatino

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

1 minute ago, RXP said:

I do share your point of view with your explanation on working code, I've also spotted changes between updates in diffing files (in this case JS code) which are clearly code changes breaking previously working code, which shouldn't have been changed at all just be the mere logic of it (I can send you the example in PM if you want).

Definitely, I've seen it too. It's like some of the changes they make are "busy changes", hence changes are being done just for the sake of a code push rather than for any reasonable progression. Hence, we've seen some standards change in the files that didn't make any sense, which not only broke functionality, but also messed with something that was like 110% amazingly perfect code. That's what's odd about the whole thing.

They obviously have some VERY skilled programmers, I've seen some of the amazing code practices, but at the same time there is definitely more of a Wild West change it NO MATTER WHAT attitude with this whole thing.

[marsman2020 1,310]

1 hour ago, simbol said:

Simply put, the more the user base continues to ask for new features, the more updates are necessary to put in the pipeline in order to meet the goals.

Except they aren't implementing the things the user base is asking for.  The Top Bugs and Wishlist items are barely being touched.  They are still faffing about with things Microsoft and Asobo planned to do before the game launched over a year ago.  The idea that they are acting on "feedback" is just an illusion.

[simbol 5,821]

Just now, marsman2020 said:

Except they aren't implementing the things the user base is asking for.  The Top Bugs and Wishlist items are barely being touched.  They are still faffing about with things Microsoft and Asobo planned to do before the game launched over a year ago.  The idea that they are acting on "feedback" is just an illusion.

You guys wanted performance, here it is.. SU5 😉

 

[marsman2020 1,310]

26 minutes ago, Kilo60 said:

I don’t understand everyone’s ADD with these constant updates that have shown that they break more than they fix!!!

 

This is a ten year project!  Shelve the game for awhile and come back to it in a year or two when it has matured and there’s tons of options in 3rd party add ons!   Aboso aren’t Fixing this game anytime soon so don’t expect any miracles at this point!

 

If you must play now don’t expect not to be constantly frustrated when things are broken and the game doesn’t work.

 

I just pop in, play briefly, and come back to this game every few weeks for now and don’t let the ton issues bother me anymore…

The idea was it would be 10 years of improvements on a solid working base, not 10 years of scatterbrained updates that break the entire sim and no solid base in sight.