You want to hear something scary ?

[Car147 2,279]

7 minutes ago, Alpine Scenery said:

I understand, but some of the developer groups have like 10+ people all on different PC's. So we are now supposed to believe a few users over the people building the airports and the experts that are discussing LOD issues.

That all the developers are so dumb they don't even know how to test for this stuff (yah it can be hard to test, but not when you got 100+ developers in a single forum, there are other forums you know with a lot more technically minded people talking about these issues right now).

Some of the people having the discussions are from the very people you buy stuff in the store from...

I think the lighting issue came about because of the constant moaning over on the MSFS forum everytime they improved it, a select few would come in constantly complaining about it, and boosting it up constantly on the to do list.

I agree like you the lighting reached an incredible state only to be hashed by some individuals that more than likely would like to see the dismise  of MSFS

Edited July 31, 2021 by Car147

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

1 minute ago, Car147 said:

I agree like you the lighting reached an incredible state only to be hashed by some individuals that more than likely would like to see the dismise  of MSFS

Yes, it was a darn masterpiece to be honest, I miss it quite a bit. 

I never liked flying at night, but it was so amazing i finally enjoyed it, and then it goes away. I am pretty passionate about this hobby, and I guess in that sense i can be overly opinionated, but i seriously do not mean any harm by it.

 

[jarmstro 2,404]

21 minutes ago, simbol said:

I see no degradation whatsoever on my PC after SU5.

I posted about it on other topics, I think there is a bug or a setting that people could be implementing on their PCs which is causing what you guys describe.

Please let me know your settings and specs. Believe me I see what is now no more than console quality graphics. Gone are the lovely lighting, shadows and textures. It looks like  a computer game.

Edited July 31, 2021 by jarmstro

[simbol 5,821]

12 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

Not true. There has been a constant observation by many on this forum that MFS was  already well optimized. I can use it at a mix ultra/High settings on my machine which is impossible with the competition.

To work with DX12, it requires memory optimization far more strict than DX11 or you end up with VRAM ooms.

SU5 is the step towards this direction, basically a wake up call to everyone, saying if 3rd party content is not done correctly in acordance with SDK instructions.. It gets nasty.

Now, of course it would be nicer just to have better documentation, I asked Asobo this.. They understand my points.. But to be fair, LOD configuration was on the SDK since the beginning.. Doesn't matter if we (devs) like LODs or not..

DX12 release will break stuff even more, mark my words..

S.

[Dominique_K 10,149]

1 minute ago, simbol said:

DX12 release will break stuff even more, mark my words..

S.

I have not the slightest doubt about it and not only 3PD addons... 

[Republic3D 1,232]

I want SU4 back with the SU5 tree fix. 

And I want to be able to stay on that version until new versions are stable and working - and the third party devs have updated their stuff. 

[RXP 2,338]

9 minutes ago, Car147 said:

I agree like you the lighting reached an incredible state only to be hashed by some individuals that more than likely would like to see the dismise  of MSFS

I honestly believe it only decreased since it was released, and there are pre-release alpha comparisons and explanations which are supporting this fact.

I've posted a link p3 of this discussion which might have been under the radar now that we're p7

Quote

 

I've tried gathering all salient problems and possible solutions in one post here:

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/external-lights-only-render-on-right-eye-random-ghosting-image-on-right-eye-only/427755/6?u=cptlucky8

 

This post on the FS2020 is an attempt to gathering in one place the most prominent remarks coming mostly from the dedicated topic about night lighting issues. It is a very long topic (the night lighting issue topic, not just my post) but I'd suggest everyone to take the time to perusing it, and look how creative the community can be and offering viable if not good solutions which are blatantly ignored. In my opinion the reason they are ignored is not technical (because the solutions offered are not any different technically, just different in the way the same techniques are used) but only because these solutions are not aligning with the artistic direction of the game (or eventually because no one was actually assigned to handle this task). The question remains: if the community is voicing the artistic direction is not proper, why is it still ignored?

 

 

Edited July 31, 2021 by RXP

[simbol 5,821]

9 minutes ago, Republic3D said:

Or you could delay them.
The same goes for other software, you could be three updates back before they won't offer support for your version.

Yea, you can only delay them.. But for a maximum period of time. At the end of the day, it will be installed.. They are mandatory, just delayed.

I think SU5 was absolutely necessary because Xbox, but we might see optional updates in the future, which will be delayed just as for Windows 10.

Microsoft push everyone to have the same version for developing and support convenience.. Not much we can do to influence it..

[blueshark747 1,843]

Seems like some of you really need to find a new sim. SU6 will drop and we will test it and report issues and bugs just as the past updates. Will it be inconvenient and will things be broken? Well most likely yes! Will bugs and issues be fixed certainly but slowly? Well most likely yes! The first two or three years of trial and error development for this sim should be expected by now by consumers. Either come along for the emotional rollercoaster ride or hop off and go find something else to fly for the next couple of years. Everyone wants improvements but no one wants to get pushed out of the comfort zone of a past stable update to welcome a new update that will need fixes and feedback, and no you can’t have your SU4 build back! It’s gone forever..get over it or find another sim to enjoy!

Edited July 31, 2021 by blueshark747

[Claudius_ 326]

17 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

Again this is not the point. The point is not whether we need updates (we do) but whether  we need updates at this frantic rate  with release 20% bugged. With a forthcoming update carrying DX12.

A flight simulator has always been a complex software, for 40 years at least one or two were on my computer. I know. Other games too. There is a tendency in this community to look at their sim as the navel of their own belly. Some wargames have some complex AI, even RPG and shooters have complex ballistics programming among other things. 

It is not true that other sims are not supported. For instance P3D is regurlarly updated and corrrected. I am not familiar with XP but I guess it is the same. If you allude to the FSX freeze without support. Who was the owner if not the owner of MFS ? 

Dear Dominique, you can't decide what a point should be, in my opinion the "frantic rate" updates work well, also ASOBO released a hotfix just the day after the SU5 was released. At this moment my DC-6 is working like a charm and the sim too, there are a lot of work to do yet, but I like it.

P3D is a non existent instance because there were a lot of guys struggling for years to adjust their ridicolous affinity masks to eliminate the stutters.

Edited July 31, 2021 by Claudius_

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

FS 2020 is based on the Ftech graphics engine from Forza, it's been heavily modded but the core graphics API's are still almost identical other than the now weird LOD changes they made. The engine already has itterations with Direct X12, how much of that they will use and backwash into the modded version is not known.

 

[Republic3D 1,232]

2 minutes ago, simbol said:

Yea, you can only delay them.. But for a maximum period of time. At the end of the day, it will be installed.. They are mandatory, just delayed.

I think SU5 was absolutely necessary because Xbox, but we might see optional updates in the future, which will be delayed just as for Windows 10.

Microsoft push everyone to have the same version for developing and support convenience.. Not much we can do to influence it..

I know. But the point would be "I choose to stay on this version for now, it's working great for me". Knowing you won't get support for it, but that's fine.

And then the whole circus can continue with the updates and breaking things. Until you realize there's a much better version which is stable. And then you can update.

[The Moose 1,177]

10 minutes ago, Alpine Scenery said:

Yes, it was a darn masterpiece to be honest, I miss it quite a bit. 

 

 

Oh come on, you're being very selective with your memories there.  It could look very washed out or completely over darkened in many situations.  When it was good it looked spectacular, but lets not pretend its was perfect before, it absolutely wasn't.   Now the lighting is different, but it still looks spectacular in most situations and still looks bad in others.

Calling it "A masterpiece" is hyperbole at best.

[Dominique_K 10,149]

Just now, Republic3D said:

I know. But the point would be "I choose to stay on this version for now, it's working great for me". Knowing you won't get support for it, but that's fine.

And then the whole circus can continue with the updates and breaking things. Until you realize there's a much better version which is stable. And then you can update.

I do not think they can do that. Please Simbol/Jean Luc correct me if I am wrong. The MFS servers continuously send us data which have loosely speaking a format adapted to the last version. They cannot have a multitude of versions at the user level. Of maybe they can but it would be a very large headache to manage. They need us to be at the same level. Hence the necessity of cleaner updates.

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

11 minutes ago, The Moose said:

Oh come on, you're being very selective with your memories there.  It could look very washed out or completely over darkened in many situations.  When it was good it looked spectacular, but lets not pretend its was perfect before, it absolutely wasn't.   Now the lighting is different, but it still looks spectacular in most situations and still looks bad in others.

Calling it "A masterpiece" is hyperbole at best.

It was for where I was flying, that is my opinion, except for the floating orbs. It was definitely NOT comparable to how it looks now, it was far better.

IMO, there is a lot of supposition in this thread. I don't see Asobo rewriting the DirectX 12 implementation from the Forza engine, Microsoft is going to use their DirectX team to port that part for them, or at least give them the abilities. It's likely already been done, MSFS likely already has a DirectX 12 build API they are experimenting with, they will just need to fix certain things. 

Asobo is not really a game engine developer AFIK, they may have developed one or two very simplified engines in their day, but nothing I recall that was anything complex like this engine. Even though Asobo is the developer, they did not develop the engine at all. The game engine came from the Forza and Direct X and Take 10 team, not Asobo.

I am seriously not sure where some of this stuff is even coming from, unless like everything I have ever read is wrong.

Edited July 31, 2021 by Alpine Scenery