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ATC Improvement?

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IMO, the current ATC system is adaquate for GA IFR operations, and also simulates VFR ATC well. However, for airliner/heavy iron operations, I think that SIDs/STARs would be the big one to add. I know that there are workarounds to fly STARs, but it would be nice to have those procedures in the ATC system itself, like the approaches are. This also gives rise to an 'updatable' nav database in FS, where the user could update procedures to current ones. Proper AI separation procedures would also be nice, like getting s-turns or speed restrictions for spacing. This is just my wishlist for ATC. I'm not ripping on FSX or anything like that.That being said, I'm not holding my breath to see if any of these get implemented next version. One of the PMs has already said that it's unlikely that any major refinements to the ATC system are forthcoming. I do wonder, though, if FSX had a significantly improved ATC system, if more people would have embraced FSX, even with the current performance issues. I still think that FSX is the future, especially after DX10 hardware is mainstream and Vista has its issues worked out. Time will tell, I suppose.

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The basic problem is that ATC is not an addon which can be changed easily. It is an integral part of the way FS works and is programmed. Major changes in how FS works, how addons will work, how the user aircraft works are necessary to change the way the ATC works.Now, SID/ STAR - that is a two fold, and solvable, problem in my opinion.First it's a Flight Planner issue, not an ATC issue. The Flight Planner has to know what SID/STAR are and to allow them to be used in auto generated flight plans.We would probably need a 'normal mode' flight planner like we currently have and an 'advanced mode' flight planner which would work like FSBuild. Be a shame to put a good developer out of business - but that is what it would do.Secondly, there need to be substantial changes in the voice pack and adding trigger events to the flight sequence.In the US SID/STAR would have to be limited implementation - especially the STAR part because of the distance of the STARS. We cannot have FS starting approaches 300 nm from the arrival airport.That would require increasing the active AI zone by several orders of magnitude and a HUGE increase in processor cycles.But it could be implemented.However, because of the way the Approach procedures are integrated with the scenery files, updating for AIRAC cycles would not be easy, or even desirable.AI separation - FS is very good at AI separation when we do not overload the system with more AI than it is designed to handle - however, it has no mechanism to mandate AI aircraft approach speed.I understand that would require a significant increase in the cpu cycles used by the AI engine to implement.Personally I've implemented it in FSX because all my AI aircraft has identical flight dynamics - just three aircraft types fly in my world.All my small twin/triple jets fly at the same approach speed - Airbus, Boeing, Caravelle, BAC, etc. I use ONE flight dynamic for them all rather than having Airbus flying at seven different speeds based on model, Boeing at five different speeds, etc.I have a small/medium jet FD, a heavy jet FD and a turboprop FD. I do not fly AI aircraft with other FD's into heavy use airports.Now for some of the aircraft I have two versions - a 'busy airport' FD and repaints, and a 'small airport' more realistic FD and those airline repaints.Now the biggest change I want the ATC to have is a new voicepack and to say - "Cleared direct to Brons" rather than "Turn to heading 280".Another easy change I want to see. AI aircraft will fly complex and sometimes curving Offset LDA, GPS, RNAV, Circle to Land, NDB, VOR approaches under IMC.They will only fly straight in ILS and straight in visual approaches under VMC.That change should be easy to make.

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Give me back ATC at my local field. They were there in FS2002, but not in FS9 or FSX.

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I am quite happy with the current ATC. It is not perfect by any means, but it's slightly improved compared to the ATC in FS2004.The default FSX ATC is good for GA flying, although I am missing some options like extended options for Unicom (to inquire about traffic patterns, if you're a sloppy planner) and CTAF, as well as more variety with the voices (more static and the microphone clicks and pops). FBO operations would be cool as well (to request fuel or repairs). Also, the handovers between controllers could be greatly improved, as well as the ATC chatter (the chatter becomes too much and unrealistic with high traffic settings).For heavy iron, Radar Contact is your choice. One little disappointment of Radar Contact does not handle ground traffic at all, so with reasonable traffic settings, it is almost guaranteed that you crash into another plane, if you don't taxi really carefully.Pat

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>Give me back ATC at my local field. They were there in>FS2002, but not in FS9 or FSX.What is your local field? Does it have ATC in the real world? R-

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>>I do wonder, though, if FSX had a significantly improved ATC>system, if more people would have embraced FSX, even with the>current performance issues. >Don't forget, we are not representative of the average FS user. The avg user doesn't fly SIDs/STARs, and therefore ATC isn't an important consideration for them.I think performance is/was much more important to most people than SIDS/STARS in ATC, and performance would lead to the embrace of FSX.Not all simmers relate to SIDS/STARS. But *all* simmers relate to performance. Perf is everything--if you don't have perf, then you can't fly SIDs and STARs or add-ons like PDMG in the first place. Perf must be in place first, just like a foundation on a building.>I still think that FSX is the future, especially after DX10>hardware is mainstream and Vista has its issues worked out.>Time will tell, I suppose.Addons like Radar Contact. -- That's the reason why MS will not add any more to the ATC system at present. MS provided the basic skeleton of ATC, and lets the 3rd-party do more. Frankly I think that is a good thing...let MS focus on bigger issues like performance and DX10 (which will help 100% of users) vs. spending valuable devtime working on a better ATC system (which will only help the harder core users that would actually fly a SID or STAR).I predict that it (Vista, FSX, DX10) is going to all work out...FSX ain't no FS2000, there's no Hitlers in Redmond, and it's all, "all right". One of the big reasons it's going to work out is because of people like you and me, conversing (albeit in the limited fashion that 'net forums allow) with the very developers of FSX.RhettAMD 3700+ (@2310 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2 GB Corsair XMS 2.5-3-3-8 (1T), WD 250 gig 7200 rpm SATA2, CoolerMaster Praetorian case

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I'm all for keeping things the way they are. RC fills my desire for heavy iron ATC well (Some may note that I am also a pilot/controller voice for RC4). Just like how they should leave the ultra-realistic complex airliners/heavy jets to the 3rd party and concentrate on the areas that you mentioned above. That being said, IF ACES were to decide to overhaul the ATC system, these are what I'd like to see.

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As others have said, having SIDS/STARS integrated into the stock ATC would be my first wish for any improvement to make ATC more realistic. Even though it is possible to fly departure and arrival procedures with the current system using "the workaround" method", it is a little cumbersome, and sometimes difficult as the proper waypoint needed to complete the Arrival is not always in the selected approach.

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ISTM in most cses you could have the AI ignore the SID/STAR transitions, and just fly to/from the main fix point.The problem with RC is it doesn't control AI.I would like more control exposed to the behaviour of ATC at airport -- better means of controlling runway assignments. Maybe also some more advanced capabilities such as LAHSO. Also preferred gate assignment for user aircraft and perhaps preferred taxi routes.scott s..

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Above all else it is the inane messages about reporting traffic sighting when you are in thick cloud, the traffic is behind you and well above or below you and you are flying an IFR flight plan that I would like to see eliminated. How many members just hit the "traffic in sight" response without ever actually sighting the traffic?

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Andrewsfield EGSL, and yes it does else I'm not sure who I've been talking too ;0)

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Most of the above.Also not to disconnect you if for some reason you fail to respond, though I *think* there has been a subtle change to FSX ATC over FS9 in that there is an option to resume the flightplan from the ATC menu without reloading the whole thing.The realistic steps and altitude restrictions that Radar Contact enforces, the option to take a shortcut to Final approach, not necessarily automatic accession to clearance or altitude requests. In fact, pretty much everything Radar Contact does now.Agree that may not be for everyone, but if you are using ATC at all then surely you won't mind a little extra realism.

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Inquiring on unicom for current runway conditions has nothing to do with sloppy planning. The winds at any airport can easily change from the time you take off to the time you reach the airport. Also, if the winds are nil, then the active runway is at the whim of whoever is using it in many cases.I think that would be a cool addition, and pretty easy to implement, too.Thomas[a href=http://www.flyingscool.com] http://www.flyingscool.com/images/Signature.jpg [/a]I like using VC's :-)N15802 KASH '73 Piper Cherokee Challenger 180

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>>Another easy change I want to see. AI aircraft will fly>complex and sometimes curving Offset LDA, GPS, RNAV, Circle to>Land, NDB, VOR approaches under IMC.>>They will only fly straight in ILS and straight in visual>approaches under VMC.>This is true. It was discussed in the circling approach thread in "The Hangar". I could not get AI to do the circling approach into MHTG.They fly straight-in, and consequently through terrain, to the runway.RhettAMD 3700+ (@2310 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2 GB Corsair XMS 2.5-3-3-8 (1T), WD 250 gig 7200 rpm SATA2, CoolerMaster Praetorian case

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This one I have the answer for. After reading an article about it on flightsim.com, I joined VATSIM and started flying with them online about 4 weeks ago. The smile hasn't left my face since. Totally awesome!This gives you real human ATC, plus human operated traffic. It gives the flying a whole new sense of realism (even beyond the strict ATC aspects), and makes you feel part of a community in a way that Forums and such like never will.Getting started is a little scary, and there's a lot to learn, but oh boy is it ever worth it. There are members and servers all over the world.Last night the LA region hosted a modest special event based on Palm Springs. I flew in there from San Diego, with highly professional ATC all the way, then, at LA Center, they had a controller taking the test to be upgraded a level, so there was all kinds of traffic heading in there to make sure he got a real good work out. He was in Russia, I was in Texas, and we were all, virtually, in LA.I'm still flying VFR on VATSIM, but you can fly any approach or procedure in the book and get spot on ATC, and if you think you're pretty good with all the "canned" responses to ATC in FS, then flying on VATSIM (where you actually talk to the controllers) is a whole new ballgame.www.vatsim.net

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I rarely respond to traffic calls and just ignore them, since ATC will not terminate your IFR flt. plan if you don't respond.

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Meh...VATSIM, at it's best, can't be beat, there's no doubt...Having said that, after 2000 or so hours with VATSIM, around half of which have been completely uncontrolled, well, that gets a little old too.Radar Contact has definitely taken over the bulk of my flight time. It may not be as good as VATSIM can be, but it certainly is more enjoyable, for me, than the all too often empty skies of VATSIM.RCv5 only looks to take it even further, sometime in 2008.As always, YMMV.

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SIDs and STARS, as mentioned above :) Holding patterns are another vexing issue for me. These are relatively basic features in every day flying ... they can't be that difficult to add ;)

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>>Give me back ATC at my local field. They were there in>>FS2002, but not in FS9 or FSX.>>What is your local field? Does it have ATC in the real world?> R-KGLS is a REAL towered airfield in the REAL world, but not in the world of FSX.I hope the next iteration of FSX will have online updates to existing airfields, etc. Something like obtaining the weather, but it will allow you to obtain information more dynamically.

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When was the tower added in Galveston. My Jeppsen USA set does not have a tower for that airport - though it's my FS set and is Spring 2005 like FSX.Let me know the frequency, and I'll work on the code to add it.

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>When was the tower added in Galveston. My Jeppsen USA set>does not have a tower for that airport - though it's my FS set>and is Spring 2005 like FSX.>>Let me know the frequency, and I'll work on the code to add>it.Galveston:CT - 120.575ASOS - 119.275GND CON - 118.625Galveston is now Class D.

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SIDS (DP) and STARS as others saidand emergency landing options, that would make me a happy chappy with the default ATC.Someone said that the majority who fly big iron don't fly SIDs and STARS but I think that is because they ethier don't know about them or it is too much bother because of the default ATC, if the SIDs STARS option was available I believe many would start using them that didn't before.I have radar contact but am not completely happy with it yet, maybe when RC5 comes but I doubt it.

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One very easy change"Cleared for takeoff runway 27R... WINDS 260 AT 9 KNOTS"... would be nice. Not difficult to code I imagine, and it is standard practice to read over the wind here in the UK on takeoff and landing clearences.

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