31 minutes ago, birdguy said:

If the procedure doesn't include the shooter himself/herself visibly verifying the gun is safe then the procedure is wrong.

Sorry to keep on about this but do you agree that, if the procedure doesn't also include the armorer showing that the gun is safe, then the procedure is wrong? So, the verification involves both the actor and the armorer but is under the direction of the armorer. 

27 minutes ago, martin-w said:

 

Who's fault is it then if a person breaks into your house while you aren't there, gets the gun under your bed in a drawer (rather than a gun safe) and kills someone in your town with it? 

 

Get a gun safe Noel. They have them now where you can access them super fast with a simple finger scan. 

They also have biometirc and combination trigger locks.  Renders the weapon useless until it's removed.  You realize some states have open carry laws right?  By your logic Noel would be responsible if he was mugged and someone took his gun and shot others with it if he was carrying in an open carry state.  

21 minutes ago, dmwalker said:

So, a gun safe that fits under the bed would be the perfect solution.

 

The ones I've seen are pretty small. You can put them anywhere. There are RFID versions too, but I'm not sure about that. Combination would be safer.

4 minutes ago, martin-w said:

 

The ones I've seen are pretty small. You can put them anywhere. There are RFID versions too, but I'm not sure about that. Combination would be safer.

Just get a concealment shelf for above the bed

 

Edited October 25, 20214 yr by psolk

1 minute ago, martin-w said:

The ones I've seen are pretty small. You can put them anywhere. There are RFID versions too, but I'm not sure about that. Combination would be safer.

If there is an intruder in the house at night, you would want to access the gun within one or two minutes and be able to do it in the dark. I assume a combination lock would require the light to be on.

13 minutes ago, psolk said:

They also have biometirc and combination trigger locks.  Renders the weapon useless until it's removed.  You realize some states have open carry laws right?  By your logic Noel would be responsible if he was mugged and someone took his gun and shot others with it if he was carrying in an open carry state.  

You and Martin are putting straw men up.  As I have said here over and over again, the finger that pulls the trigger is ultimately responsible.  Nobody has ever been held responsible for a murder committed with his or her gun if it was stolen.  No more than you would be responsible for an automobile accident if you left the keys in your car and it was stolen.

In neither case is the owner culpable.

Noel

Edited October 25, 20214 yr by birdguy

8 minutes ago, birdguy said:

You and Martin are putting straw men up.  As I have said here over and over again, the finger that pulls the trigger is ultimately responsible.  Nobody has ever been held responsible for a murder committed with his or her gun if it was stolen.  No more than you would be responsible for an automobile accident if you left the keys in your car and it was stolen.

In neither case is the owner culpable.

Noel

You didn't read correctly Noel, I was objecting to Martin's stance not supporting it.  

5 minutes ago, psolk said:

So a professional cyclist didn't have that exact thing happen to him and it hasn't been happening to cyclists in London?  And a politician wasn't just stabbed and killed?  Yes, your per capita numbers are lower

 

Well yes, of course, it happens. But we don't live in fear because most of us never encounter such things. In 63 years Ive never been threatened with a knife or any weapon. The only person I know who has, was a policeman. 

 

Quote

but to act like no one lives in fear over there because they don't need a gun is a false comparison.

 

Well most of us don't. We don't live in fear. There are always going to be rough areas in any country where its not as safe, but its what the average person encounters that's important. We certainly don't have the issue like @Fielder reported where he says he wouldn't be able to sleep without a gun. And he said that was despite being in  a lower crime rate smaller town. 

But you were right in your previous post, where you pointed out how the media mislead and exaggerate. It gives us a false impression of how safe the average American feels and also gives you a false impression of how safe the average person in the UK feels.

 

19 minutes ago, psolk said:

The days of no one being concerned about violent crimes in the UK are long gone sadly.

 

Those days have never existed. We have always been concerned about violent crime. But being concerned and "living in fear" are two different things. I'm sure all nations, regardless of their violent crime rate are concerned. 

 

21 minutes ago, psolk said:

My family in Leeds say things have never been worse and that there are absolutely areas they flat out avoid now but sure, nobody in any region feels they need to have a gun.  Maybe because they don't have a choice in the matter.  

 

Oh right, there you go, your personnel experience has lead you to draw the conclusions you do. Just as some who live in a safer part of the country would have a different opinion. 

With respect, you are cherry picking one place. You would have to look at an average of the degree of "fear" that exists nationwide. And then do the same for the nation you are comparing with. There will always be  towns, cities, in any nation where its less safe. 

 

25 minutes ago, psolk said:

but I do find there is an odd focus in the UK with what happens in the US

 

The UK is fascinated with all things American. Even to the way many in the UK now talk. 

No Martin, I'm not going to get a lock.  I know where things are and I don't want to be fumbling with something in case of an emergency.

One evening just after 10:00 I was watching the news.  My wife was already in bed.  Some one started poundng on my front door.

I immediately turned out the lights, ran to the bedroom, grabbed the gun from under the bed, pulled back the slide to load a cartridge, grabbed the cell phone and called 911.  I told the operator what happened and in less than three or four minutes she told me the police were there and were chasing whomever they were across the park.

I was sitting on the floor in the darkened living room holding the pistol waiting for the front door to be broken open.

Luckily it didn't come to that.  I am not going to put any kind of a lock on the house gun.  Perhaps if I still had my other guns I would keep them under lock and key.  But not the one I need for instant protection.  I don't hunt anymore and I don't go to the range anymore so I sold those guns.

I could get a carry permit but I don't have a need for one.  If I happen to be in a store or mall where someone starts shooting I will take cover or run for the nearest exit. 

Noel

26 minutes ago, psolk said:

You realize some states have open carry laws right? 

 

Yep, that's a whole different ball game. Not one I agree with that's for sure. The gun safety anorthites in the US recommend a secure safe, and they have good reason too. 

If its an open carry state, then I guess the weapon is protected by your own "Rambo like" skill. In a state like that, if I were doing such a thing, I'd still store it in a safe when I got home. If a bad guy breaks in when I'm not there, hen wouldn't get the weapon. 

57 minutes ago, martin-w said:

gets the gun under your bed

No need to steal guns any more. Just 3D print one and you're good to go. Maybe better to steal a 3D printer. It's the modern version of "if you give a man a fish"

36 minutes ago, psolk said:

The days of no one being concerned about violent crimes in the UK are long gone sadly

I think that happens because we say "Well at least we're not nearly as bad as in the USA so we don't need to take any action" and the next thing you know, you're well on the way to being as bad.

5 minutes ago, birdguy said:

No Martin, I'm not going to get a lock.  I know where things are and I don't want to be fumbling with something in case of an emergency.

One evening just after 10:00 I was watching the news.  My wife was already in bed.  Some one started poundng on my front door.

I immediately turned out the lights, ran to the bedroom, grabbed the gun from under the bed, pulled back the slide to load a cartridge, grabbed the cell phone and called 911.  I told the operator what happened and in less than three or four minutes she told me the police were there and were chasing whomever they were across the park.

I was sitting on the floor in the darkened living room holding the pistol waiting for the front door to be broken open.

Luckily it didn't come to that.  I am not going to put any kind of a lock on the house gun.  Perhaps if I still had my other guns I would keep them under lock and key.  But not the one I need for instant protection.  I don't hunt anymore and I don't go to the range anymore so I sold those guns.

I could get a carry permit but I don't have a need for one.  If I happen to be in a store or mall where someone starts shooting I will take cover or run for the nearest exit. 

Noel

 

 

Well, its your gun Noel, your decision, but as I said, a combination lock with four digits takes less than three seconds to enter. And a finger print scanner is one touch.

Fair enough, but I don't think you should be lecturing us on gun safety if you just shove your gun under the bed. 

No offence meant, you are a great guy, but I think you are wrong not to have a secure safe. I note another in this thread has his weapon secured and locked as per gun safety experts advice. 

 

15 minutes ago, dmwalker said:

No need to steal guns any more. Just 3D print one and you're good to go. Maybe better to steal a 3D printer. It's the modern version of "if you give a man a fish"

 

Technology advances I suppose and we find ourselves playing catch-up. Some of the home 3D printers they have now are astonishing and not expensive. Way less then we PC enthusiast nutters spend on our gear.

I must admit, I fancy getting one. 👍

I know Glock's are plastic but I recall its a high tech polymer. You could probably print one but I wouldn't fancy firing it. Doubt you could get the right polymer, probably a proprietary formulae. 

Edited October 25, 20214 yr by martin-w

2 minutes ago, martin-w said:

Well, its your gun Noel, your decision, but as I said, a combination lock with four digits takes less than three seconds to enter. And a finger print scanner is one touch.

In an emergency both are added steps.  I need to just pick up the gun with my left hand with my finger on the trigger and pull back the slide with my right hand.  I can do it in one fluid movement.

And yes, I can lecture you on gun safety because ultimately the responsible person is the one with the finger on the trigger regardless whether the gun is stolen, comes from an armorers bench, found in the park, or grabbed from a drawer under the bed.