15 minutes ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

I'm a bit confused with this talk of setting 30fps in MSFS just means half refresh rate

I think it's literally just that.  If my screen's refresh rate is 60, and I set Vsync on at 30 in MSFS, then I get steady 30fps, or half of 60.  In your situation, you artificially changed your screen's default 100Hz refresh to 97, so by setting Vsync on at 30 in-sim, you get half of 97, or ~48fps as you saw.  When you went to NVCP you no long were vsync'd to your screen's refresh rate so end up with a range of 50-60fps.  I think we can trust Dev Mode's FPS counter.  I can of course get 50-60fps, but not in the planes I'm flying and in the places I fly in and thru and land on!  So I exceedingly happily vsync to a frame rate of 30, rock solid, completely stutter-free now in and out of every airport so far it's amazing.

Edited November 1, 20214 yr by Noel

2 hours ago, Noel said:

I think it's literally just that.  If my screen's refresh rate is 60, and I set Vsync on at 30 in MSFS, then I get steady 30fps, or half of 60.  In your situation, you artificially changed your screen's default 100Hz refresh to 97, so by setting Vsync on at 30 in-sim, you get half of 97, or ~48fps as you saw.  When you went to NVCP you no long were vsync'd to your screen's refresh rate so end up with a range of 50-60fps.  I think we can trust Dev Mode's FPS counter.  I can of course get 50-60fps, but not in the planes I'm flying and in the places I fly in and thru and land on!  So I exceedingly happily vsync to a frame rate of 30, rock solid, completely stutter-free now in and out of every airport so far it's amazing.

Thanks for that explanation.

So a V-SYNC of 60 in MSFS gives the full FPS the PC is capable of?  I set this and was seeing up to 70fps.  I then changed the MAX FPS in NVCP for the MSFS entry to 60fps.  In MSFS I changed from 60 to 30.  I was expecting to see the fps rock solid at 30fps, but the developer mode was showing a rock steady 50fps!

35 minutes ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

Thanks for that explanation.

So a V-SYNC of 60 in MSFS gives the full FPS the PC is capable of?  I set this and was seeing up to 70fps.  I then changed the MAX FPS in NVCP for the MSFS entry to 60fps.  In MSFS I changed from 60 to 30.  I was expecting to see the fps rock solid at 30fps, but the developer mode was showing a rock steady 50fps!

Maybe NCP frame limiter isn't working in this context.  Why use it in the first place?  Vsync of 60 in MSFS does not give the full FPS the PC is capable of--for that turn off Vsync completely, turn off the FPS limiter in NVCP, and now you are getting the maximum FPS the PC is capable of that that moment in time, that's all, easy peasy.  You must be fully aware FPS, when unstrained as in the setup I just described in the previous sentence, changes absolutely according to all of your configuration settings in MSFS, plus the specific location you're in, what plane you're in, what the weather is doing etc.

Are you trying to get to some kind of a goal?  The commonly sought ideal goal is best image quality, perfect smoothness, at maximum sustainable frame rate.  So for me that last caveat also implies never having to stop a flight and adjust settings.  Some people apparently don't mind doing that.  To me it is the death nell of immersion.  

So let's start w/ the first criteria:  what are you after for best image quality?

 

8 hours ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

I'm a bit confused with this talk of setting 30fps in MSFS just means half refresh rate. 

I have a 100HZ monitor with G-SYNC.  In the NVCP I have G-SYNC on with max frame rate set at 97fps.  In MSFS I have VSYNC on at 30 - in developer mode I see 48FPS. I thought this meant MSFS was capable of running at 48FPS but was actually running at 30fps - does this mean I am actually achieving 48fps in the sim?  What if I set 60fps with V-SYNC on in MSFS - what fps is this?

If V-SYNC is off in MSFS but on in NVCP together with G-SYNC with fps set at 97, I see 50-60fps in developer mode - is this an actual 50-60fps I am seeing in sim? 

Framerate cap at 30 in MSFS means half refresh rate, in fact your PC tries to reach 50 fps (100:2) only getting 48 fps because of CPU or GPU bottleneck. MSFS is actually running at 48 fps with your setup.

In order to limit the framerate to lower values you can try the "20 fps" setting which corresponds to 33 fps for your 100 Hz monitor. With the 60 fps cap, it would try to reach 100 fps.

If V-SYNC is off in MSFS but on in NVCP, NVCP prevails and with a framerate limiter set at 97 your system is able to deliver 50-60 fps. The value you see in developer mode is the actual framerate.

14 hours ago, Noel said:

Maybe NCP frame limiter isn't working in this context.  Why use it in the first place?  Vsync of 60 in MSFS does not give the full FPS the PC is capable of--for that turn off Vsync completely, turn off the FPS limiter in NVCP, and now you are getting the maximum FPS the PC is capable of that that moment in time, that's all, easy peasy.  You must be fully aware FPS, when unstrained as in the setup I just described in the previous sentence, changes absolutely according to all of your configuration settings in MSFS, plus the specific location you're in, what plane you're in, what the weather is doing etc.

Are you trying to get to some kind of a goal?  The commonly sought ideal goal is best image quality, perfect smoothness, at maximum sustainable frame rate.  So for me that last caveat also implies never having to stop a flight and adjust settings.  Some people apparently don't mind doing that.  To me it is the death nell of immersion.  

So let's start w/ the first criteria:  what are you after for best image quality?

 

You are correct, the NVCP fps limiter doesn't appear to be working with MSFS.  I think V-SYNC should always be on with G-SYNC re this article at Blur Busters.  I have smooth performance, but was just confused at the terminology with FPS within MSFS.  I set my display properties in Display Properties to 60Hz and V-SYNC on at 30 in MSFS.  

Oh boy, you are all correct with how smooth the sim is locked at 30!  When I set this before, I didn't realise I was actually getting 48fps - I thought the developer mode fps readout was showing me what I COULD get if I wasn't locked to 30!  I was actually tuning my settings to 48fps, so settings were lower than what I could achieve.  Now I am locked at 30, I gradually raised the settings until I was seeing CPU/GPU limited alternating in developer mode.

1 hour ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

I set my display properties in Display Properties to 60Hz and V-SYNC on at 30 in MSFS..... Now I am locked at 30, I gradually raised the settings until I was seeing CPU/GPU limited alternating in developer mode.

You can also easily accommodate Fuzzy's apt suggestion:  set your monitor to its highest refresh rate of 100Hz, then set Vsync on at 20 in MSFS:  now you'll be at 33fps locked and solid and your system can handle that in any current plane anywhere.  You are wise to use Dev Mode to fine tune to alternating CPU/GPU limiting.  My system is similar to yours but with a stronger GPU--but even so in the worst of scenarios in the B787-10 HD I can see frame rates (unsynced/unlocked) in the very low 30's so there really isn't much headroom left to exploit the way I prefer to have configured all settings.

Doh, of course I should have set 100Hz in Display properties and 20 in MSFS as that will also take account of other Steam games that will use the full 100Hz 🤗

I'll do that when I get home!

The combination of these super smooth settings and Robert Youngs G36 mod are amazing!  I can't believe for a long time I had used many settings on medium\high  thinking I was at 30fps, when I was in fact at 48fps!  More or less everything on ultra now I am tuning for 33fps!

9 minutes ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

Doh, of course I should have set 100Hz in Display properties and 20 in MSFS as that will also take account of other Steam games that will use the full 100Hz 🤗

I'll do that when I get home!

The combination of these super smooth settings and Robert Youngs G36 mod are amazing!  I can't believe for a long time I had used many settings on medium\high  thinking I was at 30fps, when I was in fact at 48fps!  More or less everything on ultra now I am tuning for 33fps!

I suspect the reason why many people say that 30 fps is smooth, is that they are not actually flying at 30 fps 😂

Nvidia Control Panel frame limit works for me. 

I've set it 55 fps, and as long as the sim can maintain 55 or above that's what it's staying at. 

I have G-Sync on, V-Sync off. 

On 11/1/2021 at 10:58 AM, Noel said:

No difference for me.  I used 30Hz at vsync 60 for over a year, and now 60hz at vsync 30, and I see no difference in terms of how MSFS video executes.  Some people are sensitive to 30Hz but on my display it really is fine, but there is no downside for 60Hz either, so that's where it is.  I was delighted to learn MSFS ability to vsync to half refresh because this option is far better for me than limiting frames in NCP, or using RTSS.

I normally run VSYNC & 60fps in the sim but I do have to dial back the render scale to 70 and be mindful of the other settings to maintain as close to 60fps as I can. That being said I just started my 3rd leg of the day so I figured I would try dropping to 30fps in the sim (TV still set to 60Hz) I am able to get my render scale back to 100 (True 4K) and so far I am seeing a solid 30fps with some decent settings in the A32NX. Looking around the cockpit is no where near as smooth as it is @ 60fps but I get that. I do have a head tracker but don't really use it. So far the flight has been pretty fluid. I might play around with dropping the refresh rate on my 4K TV to 30Hz and capping the fps at 30 to see if panning around is any smoother. 

My CPU & GPU are both sitting around 65% utilization at 4K where as before at 2K @ 60fps my trusty old 1080TI sat around 85%. I might just try a few more flights and see how it goes. Ultimately I have found that it is always best to start off with low settings and dial the sim in to what my rig can handle and I have been pleasantly surprised.

Maybe I won't have to sell any internal organs just yet in order to get a RTX card lol 

Edited November 2, 20214 yr by RJC68

As I've said elsewhere, the two biggest factors regarding perceived image quality are eyesight and expectations.

Eyesight: Apart from the usual variations from person to person there is age, I'm oldish and my eyesight can't tell the difference between most settings.

Expectations: Some folk allways want more and require perfection, some folk are happy with what they've got and get on with it. There are definite personality types involved. The reason for different personality types?.......because humanity needs them both. We're all on the scale.
 The problems generally arise because one camp has no understanding of the other and cannot believe that anyone would have a different point of view to themselves.

I don't have a young mans eysight and I can't tell any difference between the settings suggested so I've turned them down👍🙂

Edited November 3, 20214 yr by GaryK

22 hours ago, MrFuzzy said:

I suspect the reason why many people say that 30 fps is smooth, is that they are not actually flying at 30 fps 😂

Maybe in the console section of the MSFS forum.  People here with their 3 decades worth of sim time are beyond hyperaware of the FPS they're seeing 😉

I have done half a dozen flights in the A32NX now with VSYNC & 30FPS in the sim instead of 60fps and I have to admit that yes panning is never going to be smooth as it is @ 60fps but while in flight it is buttery smooth. I have even kept the full 4K resolution and cranked up a few other settings and the sim looks just incredible with real time traffic & road traffic. I am currently passing 27,000ft for 37,000ft on my way from Verona to Liverpool and the view out of the cockpit is jaw-droppingly beautiful.

I think I have had a euphoric moment lol

Going to have some great cockpit time this weekend while my beloved other half is hard at work in her ICU 🙂

Edited November 5, 20214 yr by RJC68

49 minutes ago, RJC68 said:

I have done half a dozen flights in the A32NX now with VSYNC & 30FPS in the sim instead of 60fps and I have to admit that yes panning is never going to be smooth as it is @ 60fps but while in flight it is buttery smooth. I have even kept the full 4K resolution and cranked up a few other settings and the sim looks just incredible with real time traffic & road traffic. I am currently passing 27,000ft for 37,000ft on my way from Verona to Liverpool and the view out of the cockpit is jaw-droppingly beautiful.

Careful that's heresy to the FPS obsessed who will try to convince you something must be wrong with your vision or visual cortex.  And you've nailed it fully:  it's going to be a compromise with any of today's hardware, and tomorrow's or today's PMDG content.  Right now no one here can run all settings at absolute Ultra at 4K, including Terrain LOD 400, in any plane, anywhere in the world, in any weather, period end of story, for now.   There's always Vsync/Gsync to something between 30 and 60, but for me that's not possible due to my 7y/o display.  Very fortunately, it's as you say:  buttery smooth, stutter-free and jaw-droppingly beautiful--at least where the world is actually jd beautiful!   

If you're not doing this already besides setting terrain pre-cache where you believe it should be for your hardware the other very helpful change to make if not employed already is set Low Latency Mode to Ultra in NV Control Panel.  This was the icing on the panning cake for me and some others who have affirmed the effect.  At 60fps you are going to have 1/2 the interval spacing you would see at 30 fps of course, but the other reality with RAPID panning is you're not really looking at those intervals anyway the entire motion is too quick to appreciate and as in real life vision your brain inserts frames as required, plus there is a certain amount of blur even w/ motion blur set to OFF which is where I have that set.  And short of very rapid panning I think you will find w/ LLM set to Ultra panning becomes excellent even when set to VSYNC at 30.

Did you pick up Roman Design's CYOW down the road from you?  It's really well done and very hard on performance, but doable now s/p SU5.

Edited November 5, 20214 yr by Noel

4 minutes ago, Noel said:

Careful that's heresy to the FPS obsessed who will try to convince you something must be wrong with your vision or visual cortex.  And you've nailed it fully:  it's going to be a compromise with any of today's hardware, and tomorrow's or today's PMDG content.  Right now no one here can run all settings at absolute Ultra at 4K, including Terrain LOD 400, in any plane, anywhere in the world, in any weather, period end of story, for now.   There's always Vsync/Gsync to something between 30 and 60, but for me that's not possible due to my 7y/o display.  Very fortunately, it's as you say:  buttery smooth, stutter-free and jaw-droppingly beautiful--at least where the world is actually jd beautiful!   

If you're not doing this already besides setting terrain pre-cache where you believe it should be for your hardware the other very helpful change to make if not employed already is set Low Latency Mode to Ultra in NV Control Panel.  This was the icing on the panning cake for me and some others who have affirmed the effect.  At 60fps you are going to have 1/2 the interval spacing you would see at 30 fps of course, but the other reality with RAPID panning is you're not really looking at those intervals anyway the entire motion is too quick to appreciate and as in real life vision your brain inserts frames as required, plus there is a certain amount of blur even w/ motion blur set to OFF which is where I have that set.  And short of very rapid panning I think you will find w/ LLM set to Ultra panning becomes excellent even when set to VSYNC at 30.

Did you pick up Roman Design's CYOW down the road from you?  It's really well done and very hard on performance, but doable now s/p SU5.

No I am currently not using LLM in NVCP, Thanks for the tip. Are you also running Game Mode On/Off? Also are you using the in game combination or setting Half refresh rate in NVCP?

I will try it once I am done with this leg. To be honest I am still shocked that in today's terms "My now modest Hardware" is doing such a fantastic job. I am currently showing just under 9GB VRAM usage so my trusty old 1080TI still has some headroom.

I haven't tried the Roman Design Airport, he also did an awesome job of my local flying club about 10KM's from me. I am from the UK originally so still do lots of European legs. Maybe this weekend I will do some local routes 🙂