Todays New Release - F16 Collection on Just Flight

[fogboundturtle 2,708]

50 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

OK this is by last reply you have my word, but I take deep offence at what you say, so go read back.

"do hope you get on the team and they put all this right and you have an input on anything more they make in this line of aircraft. They would be very hard push to find anyone that works on these so they should jump at the chance of your help. Anyone thats got a lot of time in these, even in another sim could also help out a lot.

O well, I wish you and them the best, I really do."

Thats toxic is it? If I have a "agenda" its only wishing it was better. Thats Toxic is it. Am done you have my word.🤬 I will go even more I wont even read this topic again OK!!!!!!

 

You came in like a wrecking ball first. SC Design was aiming at a more affordable product. It's obvious that it's not what you were looking for. Some of the critics were valid and you came in and told him his stuff was trash. You can obviously tell he cares and he's also learning. Imagine spending hundred of hours on something only to get destroy by some users who were never his intended audience.  It would have came in asking SC Design  if they had a plan to fix some of the issue you have spotted. I think the conversation would have gone better. 

I think you meant well but your delivery was a bit harsh. Specially for someone who didn't pay a penny to begin with.  If you were a customer  maybe you could have said that you felt you didn't get your money's worth but you are just here criticizing without even flying it. So there's that.

Edited December 10, 2021 by fogboundturtle

[DC1973 522]

I have solved why the textures in the cockpit appeared so low resolution - I had created them at 4K, but for some reason they were compiling at 1K in many cases. That'll have done it then...

I have also found some accurate material for the cockpit interior which I can use to enhance the details and accuracy. So far, previewers and reviewers in the normal places have often stated that they really like the interior, but obviously there is much that can be done to improve things so I will get started on that very soon.

Many things mentioned in previous posts ( the constructive ones ) are being implemented, or already have been. Thanks for all the help folks, an F-16 update will be on its way before too long 🙂

 

[Dillon 2,208]

On 12/8/2021 at 1:30 PM, PlumCrazy said:

I appreciate you coming on this forum and explaining your decisions from a developer perspective.  Many developers could learn a thing or three from your communication here and on social media, along with your transparency.  I am one of those that has criticized the VC of your F-16 (admittedly from images and YouTube videos) but I look forward to future updates/improvements as you learn MSFS development techniques.  And I will be purchasing the aircraft, as it is my favorite military jet to fly in that other sim. 😉

I will disagree about choosing to deliver 3 variants of the Viper instead of a single, more "advanced" variant (and I would argue the same with the F-15 package).  I doubt many people purchase these aircraft packages because they are getting "3 aircraft" for the price of one.  I purchased the F-15 because I wanted a fast jet in MSFS, and there were none available at that time.  I will purchase this F-16 because I love the Viper, and this is the only one available in MSFS.  The fact there are a few variants has absolutely no influence on my purchasing decision, since I find little to no difference in the flight model between these variants anyway.  Obviously you know more about the 3rd party aircraft market from a developer's perspective than I do, but I would absolutely prefer a bit more time/energy/effort be put into producing a single, detailed version of these aircraft rather than into additional variants of a more "simplified" aircraft. 

Seeing as you don't have the environment around the F16 (combat) why would you want detailed avionics etc simulated in FS2020?  In FS you just need a good looking basic/visual model with realistic sounds like the default F/A-18 that give you the feel of the aircraft and that's about it.  Nothing meaningful will work anyway with the limitations in Flight Simulator. 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Dillon

[Dillon 2,208]

On 12/8/2021 at 4:23 PM, PDillon86 said:

As much as I wanted to like the F-14 it ended up feeling way too much like a modern jet with fly by wire. Hopefully down the road the flight model can be improved to give it that old pre fly by wire feel that it should have. As far as textures, I'm sure others will eventually make some that have the wear and tear so that's not a huge deal imo.  The Rhino with the enhancement mod from flightsim.to have made it probably the best fighter to be released so far in MSFS. Yes I have a lot of time on DCS with the 14,18,etc; But I think with time put in MSFS can have some high level mods that feel just as good as the best DCS modules. I want to see the fighters on MSFS to be able to stand next to the best DCS has and be its equal as a flight model, and I think it's definitely possible. 

Have you ever flown in a real fighter?  I have from my old squadron VAQ-34 in Lemoore CA.  The Asobo F/A-18 gives the correct feel for the most part of the real bird even though we had lot A/B's.  The sounds and the feel of the cockpit really capture the F/A-18 in the Asobo model especially with a VR headset.  Don't get me wrong it needs a few improvements (flap effects on the aircraft, spoilers, forward night lighting, drag, etc).  This F16 looks promising with a few updates.  That being said no one can comment on the F14's flight model like you did here unless you have facts to back it up and DCA ain't it.  Whoever did that model most likely hasn't flown in the real bird as well so that's nothing to go off of.  I personally don't like the Just Flight F14 as the feel seems off in the cockpit (the version for DCS is far better from the cockpit's perspective) and that's from sitting in the real bird both front seat and back.  Never flew in one but been around plenty but this F16 has some promise.

[PlumCrazy 236]

3 hours ago, Dillon said:

Seeing as you don't have the environment around the F16 (combat) why would you want detailed avionics etc simulated in FS2020?  In FS you just need a good looking basic/visual model with realistic sounds like the default F/A-18 that give you the feel of the aircraft and that's about it.  Nothing meaningful will work anyway with the limitations in Flight Simulator. 

Why would we require a combat environment to enjoy flying a realistic Viper in MSFS?  You do realize the VAST majority of F-16 flights in the real world involve no combat at all.  I don't see where I ever asked for detailed avionics (though I do want them 😉).  What I did suggest is a visual 3D cockpit that looks like an actual F-16 cockpit (like in DCS).  Sure, I appreciate accurate avionics being modeled, as it is always nice to do a proper "by the book" startup, shutdown and flight procedures.  I understand MSFS limitations when it comes to weapons systems.  But what are the limitations in MSFS making accurate avionics systems modeling impossible.  I ask because we have rather detailed systems modeled now in the CRJ, A320, PMDG DC6 and presumably in the eventual PMDG 737.  I know I would pay double for an F-16 in MSFS that was modeled to that level.  

Edited December 10, 2021 by PlumCrazy

[HiFlyer 9,409]

 

[Matchstick 1,914]

9 hours ago, pete_auau said:

Not really,  msfs is for civilian aircraft and dcs is for military aircraft 🙂

MSFS is for any kind of aircraft people want to fly in it (same goes goes DCS as well, thought the civillian options are far fewer)

[pete_auau 1,172]

2 hours ago, Matchstick said:

MSFS is for any kind of aircraft people want to fly in it (same goes goes DCS as well, thought the civillian options are far fewer)

depends if  you want  a half  of  a military  aircraft, for  me, if  i want  to fly  a military jet i want  the  full deal  which includes  weapons  and  working  cockpit  switches as well,  Thats why i use  dcs  for  military  jets and  msfs  for  civilian  jets

Edited December 11, 2021 by pete_auau

[fogboundturtle 2,708]

11 minutes ago, pete_auau said:

depends if  you want  a half  of  a military  aircraft, for  me, if  i want  to fly  a military jet i want  the  full deal  which includes  weapons  and  working  cockpit  switches as well,  Thats why i use  dcs  for  military  jets and  msfs  for  civilian  jets

I just think that you were not the intended audience for this product. The MSFS forum has nothing but great review for this aircraft. I guess there is some that just want to fly without the whole complexity. If you want that level of simulation, DCS is by far a better platform.

[Sphynnx 91]

Does anyone here have knowledge about flight model / aerodynamics ??? 

[aniiran 435]

21 hours ago, Sphynnx said:

Does anyone here have knowledge about flight model / aerodynamics ??? 

Can you be more specific?  Are you asking do the flight dynamics seem realistic?  To that I would say yes, but most modern fighter jets fly the same have similar accelerations and roll rates.  The F-16 is a bit difficult to land due to it's small wing span you need to fly it down to the runway at 180 kts. Use your elevator trim to raise the nose. Keep the thrust up and deploy the turkey feathers (spoilers).  It's not a set and forget kind of thing your constantly working the HOTAS system. The AOA indicator should work to let you know you are where you need to be but I find it always gives a red up arrow..so that's a problem.  My test whether the flight dynamics were good or not was to bomb in on constant turning base leg to a very short final and it seems to be capable of it.  I find the SC designs F-16 has good flight dynamics.

[177B 730]

Never having flown a RL F16, I have absolutely no idea how it should handle and react. Few do I would guess.

Sim pilots seem to rely on real pilots that have flown specific models. I have flown many civilian aircraft fixed and rotary wing, but never a jet fighter.

I know many rely on how planes feel and behave in other sims like DCS. And there many rely on claimed actual pilot interpretations of how the sim behaves.

There are so many variables, like how your controls are set up and what they are. I fly the F16 with ThrustMaster Hotas A10 head and a CH throttle quadrant with ThrustMaster TPR rudder pedals. This makes for very nice control of the F16 and lots of other planes.

My experience with this F16 is: What a fun easy to fly plane this is.

In my opinion it has just enough working systems and controls to make it very immersive, but not ridiculously hard to fly. No it is by no means a "study level" model and that is stated in the manual.

What a blast it is to fly though. I just flew from KPSM to KBML then landed at my home base KIZG an 4000' runway, then on to KPWM, then I blasted down the coast to Boston and slow down the Charles for a bit then afterburner to the Cape for a quick tour of the whole Cape. The I scooted over to Nantucket landing at KACK.  All in 50 minutes and just one refueling at KPWM.

The scenery is fantastic and even Boston was 30FPS with my old system on 4 monitors. So frame rates are great. My GrassMonkey Puck IR tracking made this flight one of the best sim flights I have ever had.

To me this is a perfect fun plane for a sim. I personally have no interest in combat or blowing things up, I have no problem with gamers that do. But I do love to get the feel of what these incredible machines will do.

A huge thank you and congratulations to the Team that made this model. Best $35 I spent on this sim so far along with the H145 also fantastic fun.

OK now I am off to Norway to fly the Scandinavian sky where I grew up. Sim on and be safe...

Edited December 12, 2021 by 177B

[DC1973 522]

On 12/11/2021 at 7:06 PM, Sphynnx said:

Does anyone here have knowledge about flight model / aerodynamics ??? 

The F-16's flight model is, like all DC Designs and SC Designs airplanes, built against the publicly available NATOPS data. The flight model matches all points in terms of things like Mach / drag curves, pitch / roll and yaw rates, acceleration against weight etc etc. MSFS has a flight model that is evolving, so there will be certain limitations as to how accurate any MSFS flight model can be, but we feel this is pretty close to reality in terms of what can be done so far within the simulator. Users of the DCS F-16 Viper say the SC Designs F-16 handles in a very similar manner.

[Rocky_53 1,600]

This is not a criticism in any way, but just a curious question... if you were wanting to fly a military aircraft of any type, why not fly it in DCS and have a choice of some of the best hi-fidelity aircraft on the market?

[SAS443 1,746]

19 minutes ago, Rockliffe said:

This is not a criticism in any way, but just a curious question... if you were wanting to fly a military aircraft of any type, why not fly it in DCS and have a choice of some of the best hi-fidelity aircraft on the market?

b/c I don't want to maintain yet another sim? (It's enough with the "Big 3" I have installed already)

Cool story bro: I actually flew the Mustang quite alot in DCS when I was preparing for tail wheel endorsement (like lot of things in my life, that didnt materialize 😂)

Edited December 12, 2021 by SAS443